Maybe if they make Evader 2W and price it accordingly it would be OK? Even if Jazz downgrades HD+ to HD and increases cost by 2 points cost she would still be taken more often then Interventor. And making Albedo Vostok the FTO option would make it not so OP. I know CB needs to sell new models, but these 3 are kinda over the top.
ODD vostok is fine as it is, it being a wildcard in all 3 sectorials is the problem. Additionally, statistically speaking it does out shoot most things in the game (including a kriza at 32").
The thing that shock me it's how many people consider Vostok OP, but sleep on Kusanagi. That strong my opinion that the Vostok it's OP only in Sectorial because he is wildcard.
He's a wildcard, has AP Immunity, has climbing plus, BTS6, has repeater, can be upgraded with ignore cover (BS=15) AND has 2 wound + 2 unconsious lvls. Pretty good compared to Kusanagi.
She is BS 14, specialist operative, PH 13, 2 wound, non hackable can have a Spitfire. Immunity AP with Arm 3 is not so big. Vostok is more mobile, but being a Specialist is not to understimate. Really vostok it'autoinclude in Sectorial, but in Vanilla it's not so automatic.
Immunity AP gets big with BTS 6 against Oblivion especially when the mandatory(?) EVO Bot is around to support it with Fairy Dust (or a Tinbot Trooper in a sectorial army). Ah, forget it Comms Attacks ignore Immunity (AP). But Breaker Ammo sucks against the Vostok. Furthermore there's a huge difference between 1 W + NWI and actual 2 W/STR + 2 Unconcious states.
Jazz should very much retain HD+. This is her thing and she adds an HD+ to Corregidor. Her cost is the issue. How she's costed is a spit right in the face of whoever still believes there's a formula behind how profiles are costed. Evader is legit imho. It is a single profile that is a bit concerning, but not that much really. Considering people go for Engineers, being a Specialist Operative doesn't really matter much. So it is Climbing Plus that makes it different from a Brigada, less armor, less PH. I do believe none of the Vostok profiles should be a Wildcard outside of Corregidor. All of them should be a wildcard within Corregidor. One thing worth noting is: If CB suddenly nerfs all three of these profiles (remember Vostok FTO already got nerfed) they would be no better than GW. Releasing broken stuff just to tone it down once it sells is a shitty tactics. I believe (and there's a lot of proof) CB is better than that. As much as I do not have confidence in their testing process, I do believe they made conscious decisions about these profiles.
Sorry for the rather uneducated question since I've been out of the loop - do I take it that the Vostok, Evader and Sombra are all worthy models and profiles to add to Corregidor armies? Same for the Wildcats? Didn't want to go ahead and spend out all the cash if they will rarely be seen.
To put it simply: yes, they are all "worthy". None of this is trash, none of these is even bad. They are all at the very least usable (wildcat), through solid (sombra) up to really good (evader and his Vostok pal). At least that's my opinion. Might be someone disagrees.
On the subject of Evaders: The only nerf they need is to actually pay for the rules they have. Compare the 26 Point Boarding Shotgun Engineer Evader to the 25 point Hai Dao Engineer. Boarding Shotgun and Combi Rifle are equal in price; AP Mines are worth 1 point, so that explains the point difference. Then the Evader gets: +1 PH +3 BTS (very relevant on HI) Climbing Plus While the Hai Dao has: +3 CC Breaker Pistol ... hmmmmm... Switch to the 23 point Boarding Shotgun vs. the 21 point Combi and it gets worse: + Specialist Operative (this didn't matter on the Engineer) + Tinbot: Firewall (-3) + Deactivator Considering the AP Mines are 1 point and Specialist Operative is 1 point, it's getting the Tinbot and Deactivator for free ON TOP of what the Engineer version was getting. .. It's pretty evident that Evaders are undercosted by at LEAST 2-3 points when compared to similar units. Maybe even 4 on some loadouts.
Kusanagi isn't a wildcard, it's prohibitive to get core link bonuses (needing to core with Moiras, an unpopular unit) her plus she can't have Marksmanship. The Vostok is a tier above her in terms of fire power because of this. Even out of sectorial the fact the Vostok has Marksmanship makes it effectively BS15 over Kusanagi. The other big effect it has is the natural counter to both units is MSV shooters. The vostok being a repeater means you can easily get White Noise where you need it to allow it to move in Vanilla. Not being a specialist really doesn't come up for Vanilla nomads. Literally pick a midfield skirmisher of choice to do the role. There's significant evidence that points to basic Breaker Pistols don't cost points either. Agreed otherwise, Evaders only seem dumb as fuck because they're cheaper than they should be. If the points cost is fixed I can't really find any fault with them.
Sure Evaders are great for their points, but it's not fair to compare them to similar units in other factions. Because: 1) The models are in different factions and the tools and other models in Nomads and Yu Jing are different from each other. Models need to be compared to other options in the same faction, not cross faction. Playstyle is different between factions as well.
We're comparing points cost, which is supposed to be comparable between factions given every faction works off the same set of rules. You could make Evaders cost what they're supposed to and they'd still be incredible. The argument isn't whether Evaders are great for their cost everyone knows they're good, the point being made is they're costed wrong and they're not an example of a unit that needs that to be good. The Boyg, Intruders, lesser valued units are all examples of units that should be considered for this type of treatment over units that run other point break cheats plus a multitude of high valued skills and equipment.
Sure they might be costed too cheaply, but it's not overpowered, and is that really that bad compared to what some other factions get? Let's not look the gift horse in the mouth.
Yes because it fucks with internal factional balance when you do that, same reason they had to bump the cost up on the Vostoks which were paying an incorrect cheaper price on the release of N4, and even then they're still psychotic and causing internal balance issues. Point breaks need to be applied to units (or individual profiles) that are a mishmash of less synergystic and desired skills, stats and weapons. If you do it to the already hyper desirable ones you just start causing big internal issues. CJC would be far better served if for example you unfucked the Evader costs, and then took their point break and gave it to a unit that needs it to get off the bench like Intruders.
Ok. That has nothing to do with the points formula, which is faction-agnostic. Especially because NA2 exists. Also; making the same thing cost different points in different factions is at best a lazy way to balance things and almost never works out; people just spam the cheap, undercosted stuff and ignore the overcosted things. Evaders aren't "great for their points," they are blatantly undercosted. And being undercosted by more than 10% of their total price, I'd argue they're blatantly overpowered. Hence why the AP Spitfire profile makes every single freaking list. If you have a problem that the Evader solves, why would you take anything else?
Using that logic they are already as bad as GW in releasing something absurdly powerful and refusing to re balance it to shift stock (Not saying this is case here). Like I said it doesnt need a straight up nerf it just needs it's fireteam options reassessed. And I would much prefer support a company that would support their game by making it healthier even if it means nerfing new stuff, and frankly a slight change wouldn't make it unplayable, which is a another point, calling for a nerf DOESN'T mean nerfing into the ground and making unplayable and thereby invalidating the purchase (the GW approach), just making so it doesnt invalidate every other option in an army. It's can also be very difficult to discuss options in regards to list building and problem solving as it will always just devolve into "just shut up and apply a Vostok". Also amusing you mention it in CJC, I find that to be the only sectorial where it doesn't really work, in that there is usually a better option as it either ends up providing bad either redundancy or doest offer enough the right amount of utility compared to another piece.
I know they wanna sell thermoplastic but I'd prefer if Kusanagi was a Wildcard in BJC over the Vostok
Intruders need more than a points break to fix them with the exception of the sniper as that's pretty much all it needs. KHD needs it's actual hacking device back and maybe a weapon that actually does something. Hmg, well its an unlinked standard hmg, it has barely more punch than the marksman rifle. Intruders were on life support for most of N3, and the change to the baiting rules last FAQ pretty much pulled the plug on that by killing their last decent use case. And for around the same cost/cheaper you can get a sombra, which is better in every way. how about neither are wildcards (Observance interlinking excepted) and they fix the expensive paperweights known as moiras that would be attached to kusanagi to make them not a massive liability. Though the Healer+custodier+kusanagi haris isn't too bad as a largely unhackable attack haris that can do a lot of classifieds and get almost all of the mission bonuses.
