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Steel Phalanx

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by yoink101, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    Fun fact: I started playing Ariadna and then switched to the antithesis of Ariadna in SP. Constructed the list precisly with the idea in my mind, the list should fare relatively well against the strongest faction and list in the game, that is vanilla Ariadna camo spam. Played this army against Ariadna quite a few times and it went pretty well. My experience playing Ariadna beforehand was of great help, of course… (Actually I also played Achilles a lot and couple times against Ariadna camo spam. That went rather well, too.) Know your enemy and know yourself and in a thousand battles you will not perish. - Sun Tze
    Obviously there is nothing in this list that could pose a threat to your murderbot in your active turn, but let's be frank: few units in the whole game has a good chance against a HMG Spetsnaz in his active turn. Murderbots are aptly named. But smoke will reduce the effectiveness of the great Spetsnaz to a quite large extent. Oh, yeah, lack of MSV2 is pain...
    (For the record: Atalanta is NOT an ARO piece. She murders enemy troopers by the truckload in her active turn.)
    The camo shell game suffers mightily against Atalanta and the plethora of direct template weapons (with high WIP) this army rocks.
    Smoke is the other cryptonite (besides MSV2) for Ariadna and this army rocks half a dozen guys with smoke - and enough orders laying down smoke to be feasible. 10-order armies just can't afford this, but having 15 orders means you can lob smoke nades, and rolling two dice on 16s makes it fairly order-effective. (Not as effective as Irmies - the best unit in the whole game!)
     
    #21 Káosz Brigodéros, Nov 15, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
    Nemo No Name likes this.
  2. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    I would rather play a seraph versus your list. Superjump + long range should make short work of your core miniatures, even if they are on total cover. For example if you lose Alke, your second group is basically useless. Lose either Eurodos or Thrasymedes and you'll find yourself with very few attack piece and forced to move to reach your opponent, who has just to castle and let you move, with maybe one MSV2 troop or a murderbot on ARO duty to force you to use many orders just to smoke your way.

    Any experience vs that sort of tactic ?
     
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  3. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Welcome to SP where the majority of models carry Chain rifles and SMGs, and most double myrm team lists fall into this category. the trick of these kind of models is to hide them on blind corners in full cover so that the only way to deal with them is to engage them within their preferred range.

    Yes, either I hope to land the smoke to counter the shot, or tag it with a flash pulse, or see if I can shoot it with standard ARO weapons, which given it's size and that it is Super jumping theres a reasonable chance it will be opening itself to multiple AROs. Or rush it turn 1 and pommel it with the myrm team.
    Alternatively I could ignore it and kill it's friends.

    When it comes to SP I often LI lists to really under perform. Phoenix, Teucer, atalanta, Agema (ML/MSR) ARO, tend to fall over dead to any B4+ weapon, meaning you down likely your only overwatch piece and 10% of orders and a significant amount of points. I'd much prefer to lose a 8 point bot, 3 point warcor or 22 point Thorakitie, less percentage of orders, less points and odds are there is other defensive redundancy. This is before you start pushing into the midfield where you will get surrounded and overwhelmed trivially.

    However, If it works in your meta and suits your play style that's great, I just prefer a more aggressive play style where the lead team is thrown forward, breaks most of the serious threats then falls back under the protection of the fire support group, making surrounding it more difficult and I have found it works well.

    Most of the lists I use are based off of these shells, theres a lot of lex spots that get swapped out on a mission by mission basis and/or what I expect to face.


    supremacy test
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
    MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
    MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
    PHOENIX Lieutenant Heavy Rocket Launcher, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 40)
    MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
    MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
    MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
    MYRMIDON OFFICER (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 35)
    NETROD Electric Pulse. (0 | 4)
    THORAKITES (Forward Observer, 360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    PROBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    TEUCER (Multispectral Visor L2) Feuerbach, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 48)
    DACTYL Doctor (MediKit) Combi Rifle, Adhesive-Launcher, Nimbus Grenades / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 23)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army


    and (which I know is 3 points under)

    Steel Phalanx
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    MYRMIDON Spitfire, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 31)
    MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
    MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
    MACHAON Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 38)
    NETROD Electric Pulse. (0 | 4)
    NETROD Electric Pulse. (0 | 4)
    LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    AGÊMA Marksman (X Visor) Mk12 / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 29)
    SCYLLA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device UPGRADE: Maestro) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser + 1 Devabot Charybdis / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (0.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] DEVABOT CHARYBDIS Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (7)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1
    THRASYMEDES (Fireteam: Enomotarchos) Submachine gun, Light Rocket Launcher, Nanopulser, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0.5 | 30)
    THORAKITES (Forward Observer, 360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    THORAKITES (Forward Observer, 360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    THORAKITES Feuerbach, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 22)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    MYRMIDON OFFICER (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 35)

    5.5 SWC | 297 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    Káosz Brigodéros likes this.
  4. dhellfox

    dhellfox The keeper of the Forgotten

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    out of curiosity how valid is the 300 point box list?

    Steel Phalanx
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10 [​IMG]2
    PHOENIX Lieutenant Heavy Rocket Launcher, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 40)
    AJAX 2 Combi Rifles, Nanopulser / AP Heavy Pistol, EXP CCW. (0 | 39)
    PENTHESILEA Combi Rifle, Contender, Nanopulser / Pistol, Monofilament CCW. (0 | 41)
    MYRMIDON OFFICER (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 35)
    MYRMIDON Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 26)
    MYRMIDON Spitfire, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 31)
    MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
    MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
    MYRMIDON Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 24)
    AGÊMA Marksman MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 30)

    5.5 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  5. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    Please, there is a difference between filling the fireteams with CR myrmidons and fielding only that.

    There is one thing i always see when we comment on these:
    "I hide all my models on full cover and the opponent is forced to go in engage range"

    Can you really do that ? On most tables it's plain impossible. Yes, you can be on full cover on deployment, but what if your opponent can just spot a little of one troop and launch a missile (or any long range AOE weapon) ? "But i'm deploying them split enough so that it's impossible to hit several of them" is your answer ? And the opponent can't use highly mobile troops, like the Seraph i mentionned ?
    It's really some kind of Schrodinger deployment, you are both at full cover from any angles, with a horde army, but at the same time there is no way to use some templates (indirect fire, sacrificial chain rifle ...) to cripple your army ?

    The fact is: with such a list you have very very few long range weapon, and close to zero ARO troop. Meaning you can only stay on full cover and hope your opponent can't exploit anything. You're letting your opponent free to do as he please, hopping he'll be nice enough.

    And the 90 pts Seraph is so expensive there is nothing else in the army, no heloth, no nisse, nothing that could protect it and delay you (which is quite easy because you have so few long range shooters, and, they don't have that much range - you can smoke your way, but it costs a lot of orders). Note that i did mention that the Seraph needs only a few kills to heavily cripple this army. If it ends being flashed, or lose sight because of some smokes, it's fine as long as it dealt one or two crippling blows - which will be easy to do since you have nothing to threaten it in the 60-80 cm range band, even flash pulse is at a disadvantage here. You can smoke, but only after the seraph could shoot once, and the odds are not in your favor.

    Yes, it's probably meta dependant. I often face a pano player who usually field a highly defensive army (nisses, kamau, helots, hexas ...) with a few powerful agressive fighters. He often play careful on turn 1, picking some troops but staying in his side, and only going forward on turn 2 or 3 when the field is safe enough and his troops overpower anything left. I don't see how you could face that with such an army.
     
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  6. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    This is meta dependant, where I am the table density is often enough to allow me do so, but in other areas I generally have to modify this and pick my fire lanes.

    If you aren't trying to do this to some degree you are probably failing at deployment, however this is not always possible and you have to do the best with what you have. Tools like flash pulses (especially b2 ones in a fireteam) can allow you move to partial cover on mid range firelanes from partial cover allowing you to do spread out just that little more. but given table variance and how that interacts with opponent and scenario makes it a nebulous topic at best that leads to discussions that devolve into "Schrodinger's deployment"

    Thats the point of highly mobile troops and you just need to adjust your gameplan accordingly, to mitigate their impact until you can deal with them.

    SP doesn't really have a huge amount of Long range weapons, and only a handful of those are actually worth using at all, and of those they are all awful reactive pieces as you lose too much when they die. Defense and ARO isn't really something the army does well, rock solid defense is more in the purview of PanO, Nomads and Ariadna.

    We also seem to have a misunderstanding of what constitutes "ARO troops" (just about anything in the game can be an effective ARO troop), which for me requires most if not all of the following criteria cheap, annoying to deal with, and disposable.
    Cheap, because it will die, often trivially and without causing damage, so bother paying 30-40ish points and wasting SWC on such a piece when a 8-15point model with a flashpulse will contest rolls and stop enemy gun platforms equally as well?
    Annoying; a good speed bump needs to disruptive enough to warrant attacking and also soak up a few of their orders in the process, a linked FO, a standard flash bot, suppressing Agema, or dirt cheap warcor do this excellently.
    Disposable, as I said earlier, ANYTHING standing up in ARO will die for virtually no gain (with a few notable exceptions in other factions), so I need to not care whether or not the model the dies.
    So using that definition the second list has a significant amount of "ARO Troops" with few "Hard" ARO (Hard meaning direct damaging fire) pieces who's job is to look over the most important areas of the table.
     
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  7. Disko King

    Disko King Well-Known Member

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    Well, atlanta will have trouble killing anyone if she can't see them ;)
    Well, camo shell game doesn't actually suffer that much vs templates. Your templates ain't really that cheap, ariadna has way cheaper templates that they can spam, if you leave atlanta to cover lanes, she will die, if no one is covering lanes in active turn, dog warriors, warbands with cheap templates, or just laying mines around the corner will do wonders vs your list.
    Don't really care about your guys advancing with smoke,you just get closer to me so that I don't have to waste orders to get to you, and I have cheaper troops to waste, since you are mostly in links, it just gets easier to cover several guys with my template or exploit lay mine around corner then peek and say, eat a mine and mine shot or dodge...
     
  8. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    It's a great starting point and provides a good core to move forward from.

    And same goes for Thorakitai teams, odds are there is one or two CR ones in there to support the main shooters. so you can't really dismiss it on the grounds of being just more CR spam.

    There is always a way to get a chain rifle into a position to cripple almost any army in the game, if you think otherwise you are kidding yourself or playing something like Nomads, TAK or VIRD, it just becomes a case of mitigation or the order expenditure to so just that little to steep to do so, and as I have said in previous posts I find the LI style of SP lists to be way to vulnerable to this (after learning the hard way thanks to monk + Kuang shi spam), so I found moving to a more spread out list with more orders to be more beneficial.

    Alternatively, I just need to ensure that only a handful of pieces are protected vs most of my list were I to use other builds, and while flash pulses are at a disadvantage beyond the 24 it's not a huge one especially considering a jumping seraph wont have cover, providing you didn't place to cover a long range fire lane. As an side attempting to counter fire a TAG especially a PanO TAG in reactive is often a losing a proposition anyway.

    Frankly in SP you should be avoiding the long range firefights like the plague, it's why we have both types of smoke in the army, and anything in the mid to close should end up shredded.
     
  9. Savant

    Savant Lhosthost
    Warcor

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    My favorite way to play 16 order Phalanx.

    Armageddon 1
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    MACHAON Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 38)
    PHOENIX Heavy Rocket Launcher, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CCW. (2 | 40)
    MYRMIDON Spitfire, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 31)
    MYRMIDON Chain Rifle, Nanopulser, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 16)
    THRASYMEDES (Fireteam: Enomotarchos) Submachine gun, Light Rocket Launcher, Nanopulser, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0.5 | 30)
    THORAKITES Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    THORAKITES (Forward Observer, 360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    THORAKITES (Forward Observer, 360º Visor) Submachine gun, Chain Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
    NETROD Electric Pulse. (0 | 4)
    NETROD Electric Pulse. (0 | 4)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6
    EKDROMOS Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Chain Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 26)
    PROBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    DALETH Rebot Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    ZAYIN Rebot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  10. Paperclip

    Paperclip Member

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    How does SP deal with kamau/taagma schemer link towers? So far I have been using 3 thorakitai LRL + thras to coordinate shoot, but then there is always the chance of missing especially when it comes to the kamau.
     
  11. Savant

    Savant Lhosthost
    Warcor

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    With Teucer shooting marksman level X through Nimbus and/or smoke
     
  12. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    Never played against a Seraph, so I kindly refer You to @Tourniquet ...
    I played against Achilleus and Su Jian, and I presume the moral is similar: Whoever goes first, wins. When I went first I either killed the big guy (pull the fang) or killed enough cheerleaders to effectively limit the big guy to a couple orders (suffocating). When my opponent went first I tried to spread out my troopers and hope one or two of the heavy hitters survive the alpha strike and goes for a counterstrike. I had never been able to pull this trick, however...
     
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  13. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    Obviously Your opponent will do some killing. But hopefully he will have to spend a lot of orders to do so. Playing this list I hope he will not have enough orders to kill all 4 (5 includin Trasy) heavy hitters and I can retaliate. As I mentioned I was not able to do this tactic. (Won a couple games going second against the Fairest of All Heroes, but that was either sheer luck or extreme hide-and-seek late-game-rush with my button-pushers or - mostly - a combination of them.)
     
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  14. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    As the old adage goes: ARO troops are like sex toys: anything can be one of them if You try hard enough.
    Seriously, dude, You are right. SP lacks good ARO troops pecisly because they are too expensive to treat them as disposable heroes. I had most mileage out of Thoras. SMG in Supressive Fire with them 360 visors and ARM3 (6 in cover) is pretty dope for a measly 12 points.
     
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  15. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    If Atalanta can't see anyone, Eudoros goes hunting upfields unhindered.

    With all due respect, mate, yes, it does. A 3-man Myrm fireteam will advance quickly upfields and will not discover camo markers one by one but will lay templates on them - if one of them fails the WIP roll, the two other will chuck out the next. (And hopefully I will get more than one under one template.)
     
  16. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    Eclipse
     
  17. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    <points upwards> This!
     
  18. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Ekdromoi, Dropping a 20pt chain rifle from orbit on it's freinds, will make dealing with it conventionally much easier.
     
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  19. Disko King

    Disko King Well-Known Member

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    Well, usually I place my markers this way that you can only cover single with templates, it gets even more fun when you place them inside building, ground floor, floor 1, floor 2 etc. And that's really easy with infiltrate since I have half table. Then place mine around the corner for example, in order to discover it, it will blow to your face. Place chasseur in way, okay, you move, I delay(SS l1), now if you move again, I will just flame you, if you discover, I will flame you etc.
    Then you waste few orders just to chain rifle that ambush camo, or you do it for mine that is behind cover, but when you chainrifled it, actually nothing happened, because it's base size and now you can't see it any more.

    So in the end you will waste orders and order and maybe kill few cheap guys if lucky. There is decent chance that in retaliation you will loose equal amount of points.

    Depends where you out atlanta I might put cateran somewhere far away just to take pot shots or to make you waste few orders on throwing smoke.
     
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  20. DeltaDrop

    DeltaDrop Member

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    Thanks,

    I had a friend who doesn't play infinity. I told him Steel Phalanx was a combination of Tojan Heroes and Amazonian Warriors. He seems into it. I think he;ll get some. I'm glad to hear they are not a bad faction. I just worry I mislead him about the Amazonian thing, don't actually see many models for that. He really like the idea of an Amazonian army.
     
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