it makes it more egregious since one of the best N4 changes was the across the board simplification of forming fireteams with removal of specific fireteam profiles. Now SP is the sole bastion of unintuitive legacy rules.
I don't even play the phallus and I think this is utter, unmitigated, bullshit. Letting Thorakatai, especially, form Fireteams on their own was just better.
Yeah. They saw a bunch of players really excited for some new approaches and list building opportunities and then thought, “oh shit! Everyone is happy. Walk it back!” This change is a significant bummer. Especially, as things stand now, Thrasymedes can’t even make a thorakitae fireteam any more. Grumble grumble.
They removed the fireteam skill, it means as far as army is concerned they cannot form a fireteam full stop. Considering this and that the FT chart (which overrides army until the chart is updated), the skill removal appears to be a bug so probably just ignore it for now and report it in the bug thread.
No, looking at RAW you are still able to form Thorakitai with wildcards that have the Enomotarchos skill (Hector, Thrasymedes FTO and Acmon). The sectorial chart simply states that it is possible to form a Thorakitai link, but you still need the Enomotarchos skill. The Wildcards are able to be part of the Fireteam creation, as long as there is at least one Thorakitai, and can as such be the model that has the Fireteam Enomotarchos skill. It is uninintuitive and backwards, but it is still possible.
I missed that Thrasymedes’ FTO profile has the skill. It’s not bad, there were just some interesting options to shake things up and encourage more solo pieces. Alas.
Well, I don't even play the righteous smurfs either, and I think they are utter, unmitigated bullshit, but you won't see me in the Path'O forums trolling for the sake of it ;) Thorakitai are precisely the troops that improve the most with the change. Myrmidons will mostly prefer to link heroes anyway (because of their weapons and Eclipse smoke, and the NWI + shock inmunnity means they can take a hit with the link not going to hell), but get the option of switching compositions depending on the table (for example, 2 myrm fireteams, with 2 chain rifle myrm each and 2 heroes can change to a full hero death star, and a mob of linked hoolingans); and Dactyls... remain as always. //////////////////---------------\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Spoiler: citations In short: Sectorial Charts > Army. It is confusing, but it's as it is for now at least. So you can make a 4 thora fireteam or a full Myrm fireteam without heroes/officer.
You can't. You need 2 things for an Enomotarchos Fireteam: A valid entry in the Secorial Fireteam Chart Some dude with the Enomotarchos Skill who can join that Fireteam (because the Enomotarchos Rules says so and the Chart has no impact on that) Which means you need a named Character or Myrm Officer. But there are several new Wildcards that can unlock condition 2 for every Enomotarchos in SP. Hector, Thrasymedes, Hippolita and Acmon enable Thorakitai, Myrmidons and Dactyls. Or alternatively can join them in addition to someone else with the rule, which means you can have i.e. a Hector, Hippolita, Acmon, Thorakitai HMG Fireteam. Wildcards unlocking either Enomotarchos is new. Acmon, Thrasymedes and Hippolita joining any already unlocked Fireteam they want is new. The biggest issue at hand is how you can't reform an Enomotarchos without a named dude. Then again the named dudes got significant buffs across the board and/or Wildcard, so there is a significant incentive to fit as many as you can (and 2 Netrods and Lamehs to make sure you still get to 15 Orders).
Chill out man, reading comprehension. He didn't attack Steel Phalanx, he said the CHANGE is bullshit. As Army stands now, only the named characters have the Enomotarchos skill. Myrmidons and Thorakitai don't have it and therefore they can't even join a fireteam. Units need to have the Fireteam skill or a specifically called out entry like the Wildcards to be able to even join a fireteam. It is obviously a bug or they are trying to change to the old N3 way and they forgot to add the skills. Personally, I trust the sectorial charts that CB always said are the right ones and I think that it is just a bug that myrmidons and Thorakitai don't have Fireteam: Enomotarchos skill.
Well... there goes my smile. Anyhow, until there is some legitimate statement in that regard, the current status of the Enomotarchos rule is debatable (as in: I don't think there is any gaming group who has everyone agreeing on the same interpretation of that rule). The way I see it (and I'm using a Rules as Intended approach rather than Rules as Written): - The wording of the Fireteam: Enomotarchos skill entry in the wiki suggests that not all linkable troopers would have access to it. You need one miniature with that skill in order to form the fireteam. - The "count as a Myrmidon/Thorakitai" serves a double purpose here: one, to form an all-character enomotarchos link of myrmidons thorakitai. Two, so the myrmidons and thorakitai characters can't form an enomotarchos link with different troop types. - Thorakitai and myrmidons can form a Fireteam: Enomotarchos using a wildcard character with that skill. The generic troopers fulfill the first criterion (type of troop that can be linked) and the character fulfills the second criterion (presence of the Enomotarchos skill when forming the fireteam). This is what I think is the correct interpretation of the rules, but it's not what I'd want. What I'd want is the thing we had going for a couple of days. And linkable agema. And greek Constantinople. But we can't have nice things now, can we...
@Sigeric I don’t think it is debatable. They updated army and took away the enomotarchos skill from thorakitae and myrmidons. Not dactyls though. You can fuck whatever nachos you want. I don’t know about a statement, but the army update seems clear to me. (Sorry, I couldn’t help myself)
Well, I'd say it depends a bit on the gaming group, as there are lots of niche cases in the current system that 'encourage' debate such as: can a Su-Jian activate NWI if it goes straight to the second unconscious state? Is the +1B from your pistol applicable in CC? How can Margot be a HI when her armor lets you see her supple midsection, and what are you E/Mming to immobilize her? And so forth.
The Su-Jian and Pistol cases aren’t debatable at all; both have been clearly answered. As for Enotomarchos, I believe the original flavor was the squad following the hero around, so requiring an officer makes sense, especially for Myrms. Thoras needing one isn’t TOO bad, with the various wildcards in the faction, either. Dactyls being able to do it natively is really weird and I wonder if they just forgot to take it off of them. I think some people here really need to take a deep breath and calm down. From what it appears, this wasn’t a change they intended to make and they just fixed that error. There’s been a lot of stuff that hasn’t matched what their master sheet had and there’s going to be errors, just like when N4 first released.
It's not that I'm angry, just disappointed, with the change. I think as it is now it is badly implemented and poorly formulated, especially when every other faction lost the weirdness of specific FT profiles and FTOs are now just for specials and Wildcards. It also bugs me that this kind of impactful change is just sneakily added to Army without any word from CB, especially if this is supposed to be a key thematic part of this entire sectorial, and how such a big change is overlooked and "accidentally" sneaks out in live. Hell, thinking about it, this return to form now feels ass backwards, and it feels like it would make much more sense rather than Officers and Heroes counting as Myrmidions it would be a much more clear formulation that Heroes count as Myrmidion Officers and that there is a Special Fireteam of Myrmidion Officers which can include up to 3 Myrmidions. In this case the actual intention would be much clearer and we wouldn't have the "but they can't form a fireteam in the first place" misunderstandings at all. I should also state that I don't think that the change means that it is impossible to make good fireteams, however, it feels like this is extremely limiting and hurting. Now, my practical experience with SP isn't much, but looking at it I see a lot of anti-synergy and bad options. The big issue is how I feel railroaded into treating both Myrms and Thorakitai as cheap link fillers rather than actually trying to make any of their own point pieces work, as I am forced to include a 30+pts model in almost any link, which is often equipped to be a point. This makes most of the options really feel like a straight up "link tax" that needs to be paid.
SP trades 5 man link bonuses to be able to make enomotarchos. 5 man link bonuses are pretty much the hinge of the whole game. There's no need to add the hero restriction to enomotarchos, they will not be too powerful, they do not detract from the spirit of the game or the lore, and most of the heroes are good enough that you might still see a hero in most enomotarchos.
Yeah, exactly this. I don't play Steel Phalanx, I never have and I probably never will. But this one change (allowing Myrmidons and Thorakitai to form Enomotarchos teams without a "character") was the single biggest and most important quality of life adjustment so far in N4. There are two Phalanx players in my local meta, and both of them have thrown up their hands at this back and forth... one of them is bordering on quitting altogether. Walking back this change, regardless of intention, is a TERRIBLE mistake. Myrmidons and Thorakitai should be able to form Enomotarchos Fireteams without requiring a "character" in N4. I sincerely hope that the CB team listen.
