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Starmada feels a bit... underwhelming. And here's how to fix that

Discussion in 'O-12' started by Sharrankar, Nov 23, 2020.

  1. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but I can take Parvati in Vanilla as well

    Sure I can't link her, but she's a BS 12 SMG, I am not linking her to give her link bonuses, I am linking her to add a specialist to a link. But then she can't have servants. Now I can take her with servants... but I can do that in Vanilla.
     
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  2. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust
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    While true, you can't really deny that being able to take a WIP 15, 2STR, Doctor(2W), Engineer(+3) in a fireteam with Hector and a BetaTrooper is cool. It seriously increases their survivability by constantly patching up a Beta spitfire any time he takes a single wound, or healing Hector up to full from NWI. If you want to go for the full Fireteam, you also have access to Wildcard PsiCOps and Tian Gou to function as cheaper fillers for the link that actually add a lot of utility. (Surpise 360 visor or jammer, B3 Nanopulsers, MSV1 Multi Marksmans, Hackers combined with the Hector's tinbot)
     
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  3. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust
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    It is expensive, but it's undeniably cool and unique.
     
  4. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    It is very cool, I tried it recently, and it kicked ass! I don't think anyone is arguing that it is a bad team.

    But on the whole, my personal feeling is that the number of reasons for me to play Starmada is relatively low compared to other Sectorals, the variety of legit appealing options you might say. And that's not to say there's no reasons, just that I don't always want to play that and a Kappa Core when I play Starmada, you know?
     
  5. Captain_Rose

    Captain_Rose Well-Known Member
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    There are a handful of sectorials where I don't feel that the obvious options or 'conventional list building theories' (if that's a thing?!) apply.
    Starmada definitely feels like one of them. I also felt the same about Tunguska - they lack some options you just feel they need. But, that doesn't mean they're not fully capable of dealing with everything in the game.

    That said, I do think there are some great suggestions in the first post. The Riotshield sounds awesome. It could function just like a nanoscreen so it isn't that much of a buff, just some order efficiency/usefulness.

    Bronze ML - yes please!
     
  6. Numazokola

    Numazokola Well-Known Member

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    another thing that I find annoying is that, having those cool expensive links (core or haris of betas, hector, parvati), Kyttas are only AVA 1; and varangians AVA 2. I think part of the problem is that you can't buy cheap orders for the cool link to run around.
     
  7. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    ...you have 3 cheapo orders there already, 2 8-point Fuzzbots if you want them, and then a 20-point Chain of Command trooper who can holomask as something else. That's a 6-order backbone with Chain of Command allowing you to get the +1-order Hector, plus 2 smoke-chuckers, all within 67 points.

    Not sure what you want, Kuang Shi?
     
  8. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    I have been testing the use of defensive crushers, and they just get removed trivially without actually doing anything regardless of when and where they get put out in aro. leaving you short 30 ish points, an SWC, a valuable forward specialist and an order. if they had camo so they didn't just get backhanded off the table the second a linked weapon glances in their general direction and you got to choose when that engagement goes off you may have a point.

    I have found with SM that unless you go first and alpha real hard to set the tempo in your favour you will just get rolled by your opponents retaliation, and it's worse going second. and the only viable build that has come out of the 4 O12 players in my meta was Hector paintrain with everything else being a coinflip.
     
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  9. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Also how in the hell does a single LRL crusher waste 10 orders are they trying to engage them with a rifle in it's bad range band? Typically they are lucky if they survive a short skill, point any half way decent shooter at them and they fall over almost instantly.
     
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  10. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    I'm keen to try them in ITS12, see how they interact with new missions, new extras etc (zero-G zones for example)

    I agree with some of the "yes but vanilla is better" sentiments, but there are a few niches where I really like them (Santiago duo, high AVA crushers for example), and I've always been someone who's not super fussed about always running a high power core fireteam.
     
  11. Sharrankar

    Sharrankar Active Member

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    You have ava 3 of Crushers in Starmada and ava 2 in vanilla, so the difference is really minimal

    Also, sure, Tian Gou is cool in a link, altho l see a lot of problems with it - in what kind of a link would you run them? Prolly aggresive core, which, in my opinion, is too unwieldy and expensive. Althou this varies from playstyle to playstyle, so that's fair
    However, jammer that needs orders to get up front and be effective is cool, but not auto-include
    It's more that his presence in the sectorial helps discourage people from approaching certain things up close

    Sure, you have options in Starmada that look cool on paper, but then the meeting with reality comes speeding right at ya
     
  12. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    The tian gou solo was surprisingly effective as bait. holo'd up as refill kappa by itself on a roof nearby seems to make people think it's cho so they end up wasting a bunch of orders diving the gou to kill it thinking they will put you into LoL. all the while the bluecoat LT is hiding in the fireteam keeping his head down as much as possible.
     
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  13. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust
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    I basically had it set up in a way that it was pinning the weaker members of a Nox Fireteam. The only thing on that side of the table that could contest was a Q-Drone HMG, and I had found a spot where the Q-Drone would either have to engage me out of cover or engage me in its 0 rangeband. I was covering another portion of the board with a Kappa ML, and my opponent ended up wasting his entire first turn trying to kill the Crusher LRL. The Crusher survived in NWI, and the Q-Drone burned off the table at the end of the turn.

    Obviously this isn't how it will always go, just wanted to justify my statement with the story. But it definitely can work, and 5 armor (with cover) is totally decent to offer staying power. My LRL crusher has almost always killed its points before going down.
     
    #33 ThananRollice, Nov 24, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
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  14. Kreslack

    Kreslack See you Space Cowboy...

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    I've noticed some of these Starmada 'deficiencies' but not super suffered from them yet. My tables tend to be a bit more terrain heavy so spitfire/rifle ranges tend to be quite adequate. And a few or the other short range pieces like Andromeda are much stronger.

    I do wish they had a 20-30pt bracket skirmisher.
    The Nyokas feel really meh to me. They are hardly better than the other two 'Line Troops' but you pay quite a bit more for them.
     
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  15. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    The only Nyoka I have had success with was the Red Fury parachutist, it's really good at taking a chunk out of someone's flank.
     
  16. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    This is what I dealt with across the table from them, but in reverse: the opponent set up like that so I -would- think it was a Tian Gou, meanwhile it was Cho (who I assumed was the refill Kappa in a back corner guarding DZ). I avoided the area around Cho, which closed one of my approaches pretty effectively.

    That kind of thing is the value of having two useful Holomask pieces in the same army. It's particularly effective against one's regular opponents. These are the headgames that give certain units a value that corsses over between game sessions.
     
  17. Rhys

    Rhys Active Member

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    I think the only time I will be running Starmada is with the Hector pain train core or when I want a Zeta with a cheap core to back him.

    Other than that its just fairly underwhelming as it gives up too many options on the field for fairly minimal benefit and just isn't interesting as a standalone faction.
     
  18. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    Having some success with cheap Kappa + Bluecoat defensive core (ML Kappa, Psi-Cop MSV1, couple of Bluecoat ADHL corner guards), with shorter ranged assault pieces (Raptors, Santiago, Crushers) spending all the orders to push forward under their cover. Those cheap mooks being shock immune has helped me out a few times already.

    Lawkeeper has done well too, but needs a Varangian nearby to go first and create some smoke cover for him.
     
  19. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust
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    I've really enjoyed the Bluecoat Haris with a PsiCOp MSV Marksman as the leader. Sixth sense comes into play so often in my games, allowing them to dodge and get in people's faces even if they have stealth and think they can safely sneak up on you around a corner. I had a couple of Bluecoats gang up and "arrest" Shinobu in a game of Hunting Party. NBW and their Paralysis CCWs is a nasty combo.
     
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  20. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    I've run a similar Haris that also has the Psycop Hacker in it as well as the multi marksman, and it puts a sizeable dent into an enemy army.
     
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