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Starco tactica?

Discussion in 'StarCo' started by Qrow, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. atomicfryingpan

    atomicfryingpan Well-Known Member

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    I need you guys to convince me on why I need to take knauf instead of the msv2 sniper or the cateran sniper.
     
    Qrow likes this.
  2. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    Why not both?

    Or all of them?
     
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  3. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Ltd Insertion
     
  4. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
    Warcor

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    He looks cool as hell.
    Also when it comes to 1W opponents (without immunities) he's double as deadly as the Cateran when hitting.
    Made a little diagram during a lecture:
    20181129_172110.jpg
    So yeah Knauf is IMO better than a lone Brawler when it comes to the majority of opponents but obviously less good as the linked Brawler (who has hidden costs). Obviously I did my calculations with normal rolls since FTF interactions are always dependant from the troop you're shooting at.
     
  5. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Knauf has mimetism, regular order and msv1, plus multi ammo. That makes him a better gunfighter overall than the cateran, though the cateran has a better alpha strike vs 2w targets from camo.
     
  6. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Back to this, I intend to get into FCS more in the new year(been focusing on other factions the last few months), and would be willing to throw my findings in this thread to be dissected for this purpose.
     
  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Actually on this: Knauf will do better at kill Q-Drones than a Cateran (outside 32", don't try it inside 32").
     
  8. Vakarian

    Vakarian Bad Nomad

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    I've been running the MB 5-man almost exclusively since picking Starco up when Uprising dropped. Tried the Emily+Algs+Brawler Haris "netlist" a few times and found it effective but not what I was looking for.

    Everyone who's said that MB are subpar is 100% correct. It's a generic HI problem. But the unique abilities the link offers makes it so much fun to play.

    Need to shoot your way out of the DZ? MB HMG solves most situations at BS16 B5.

    ARO the MB can't handle? Walk past it with Eclipse on BS19's (+3 range) B2 Eclipse from Massacre (yes, I rolled two 20's more times than I should admit to...).

    Short range camo or TO? Hit it with either MB BSG or Massacre BSG depending how your link is set up. I always take MB BSG so Massacre doesn't have to take FTF I don't want to risk him in.

    TO or ODD dude on suppressive? Eclipse smoke and walk Massacre into CC, preferably with a buddy for +B/+Phys.

    Avatar? Pull the same trick: Eclipse to approach, make it change face then walk into CC w Massacre. Chew ol' ugly up w EM CCW. He falls pretty quick once he's Imm-2'd. Remember to use only Massacre's AP CCW once he's Imm-2'd for sweet crits.

    Grouped HI or a TAG behind cover? Get close and spec fire Massacre's EM grenades with link and range bonus on 13's. Then poke it with sharp objects and high burst or shoot with BSG or Multi to make it permanently dead.

    The link opens up almost endless options but it requires some outside-the-box thinking to use to the fullest. I've found I always have another option I wouldn't immediately consider and honestly it's been the most fun playing Infinity I've had in a long time, MB being subpar or not.

    Edited to add: when I'm not playing LI, I prefer to use a Brawler Sniper in Haris as the Turn 1 shooter. Save the MB link for T2/3 because once it's forward on the field it's easy to pick apart by shooting the Dak first.
     
    #48 Vakarian, Dec 19, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
    Guardian, McNamara and inane.imp like this.
  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I have a MB Core + Bandit and Cateran list I *really* want to run to do exactly what you described.

    I think it pairs well with the Emily/Raoul/Brawler list. It does the things that list can not.
     
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  10. Vakarian

    Vakarian Bad Nomad

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    Bandit KHD pairs really well with MB link for obvious reasons.

    I find multiple cheap AROs work better than one focused ARO to keep people from hammering the MB link early, so Cateran is a great choice. I often try to grab a Jag panzerfaust or two and never leave home without a Warcor (unless playing LI).
     
  11. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    That was pretty well the theory. Bandit KHD and Cateran as T1 attack options. Cateran, Panzerfaust Jaguar as T1 AROs, with a couple more Jaguars as close in defence. T2 go to the link. Emily there so I can drag my Lt into the midfield and as a useful troubleshooter (with the Xenotech to get value out of orders pushing it forward).
     
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  12. Vakarian

    Vakarian Bad Nomad

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    [​IMG] SCS Fenix Crew──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Lieutenant MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 42)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33)
    [​IMG] SEÑOR MASSACRE Boarding Shotgun, E/M Grenades, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, E/M CCW. (0 | 26)
    [​IMG] DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25)[​IMG] JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Adhesive Launcher, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 13)
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Adhesive Launcher, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 13)
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG]1 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 24)[​IMG] IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] SPECTOR (AD: Combat Jump) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, E/M2 CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    4 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    Play around with combat groups as desired and make the Alguacil the Lt if you're worried about LoL moving the MB link forward.
     
  13. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] Starco. Free Company of the Star
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] CSU Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    [​IMG] EMILY (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and E/M), Nanopulser / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 35)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Lieutenant Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33)
    [​IMG] MOBILE BRIGADA HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 42)
    [​IMG] SEÑOR MASSACRE Breaker Combi Rifle, E/M Grenades, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, E/M CCW. (0 | 29)
    [​IMG] DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 24)
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
    [​IMG] JAGUAR Adhesive Launcher, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CCW. (0.5 | 13)
    [​IMG] SALYUT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    4 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Specifically built to go first in Frontline, so the baggage bot and CSU duo are there to secure the near zone (as well as acting as flank defence in the CSU's case). You can drop the CSU + Baggage bot for ADHL Jag + 2 x Transductors + WarCor but I think in Frontline the Duo is more useful.

    Core is the mailed boot to play "keep kicking them until they stop moving" after you stick the knife in with the Bandit T1.
     
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  14. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    one of my current go to lists (and the one i use for Highly classified) runs the MB link, and i have pretty consistent success with it. the starco MB link fixes the biggest issue of the MB that is present in CJC which is the cost of the link while giving the link added flexibility in how it engages the opponent and the mission.


    MBHC 4.6
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    MOBILE BRIGADA HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 42)
    MOBILE BRIGADA Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 43)
    MOBILE BRIGADA Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 37)
    SEÑOR MASSACRE Breaker Combi Rifle, E/M Grenades, Eclipse Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW, E/M CCW. (0 | 29)
    DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    STEMPLER ZOND Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    TRANSDUCTOR ZOND Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    CLOCKMAKER Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25)
    ALGUACIL Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    HARDCASE FRONTIERSMAN Tactical Bow, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    IRMANDINHO Chain Rifle, D-Charges, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 8)
    CATERAN T2 Sniper Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 24)
    CSU Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)
    5 SWC | 298 Points
    Open in Infinity Army
     
  15. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    Well I've been challenged to bring StarCo to CanCon - 5 rounds, Frontline, Supplies, Decap, Supremacy, Firefight.

    So bearing in mind that for one list i want minimal specialists and plenty of killing power, and for the second list I need hackers, doctors/paramedics, and someone to escort the xenotech, this is what I've come up with so far.


    Supremacy/Supplies
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2
    EMILY (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and E/M), Nanopulser / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 35)
    ALGUACIL Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    ALGUACIL Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 10)
    UHAHU Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Icebreaker) Pitcher, D-Charges / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    HELLCAT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    HELLCAT Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)
    BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25)
    BANDIT Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Light Shotgun, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 25)
    CSU (Specialist Operative) Breaker Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    CSU Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    SPECTOR (AD: Combat Jump) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, E/M2 CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    BRAWLER (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    BRAWLER Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 18)

    5.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army




    Firefight/Decap
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]1
    SPECTOR (AD: Combat Jump) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser, Drop Bears / Pistol, E/M2 CC Weapon. (0 | 33)
    HELLCAT Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    HELLCAT Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    AVICENNA Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    RIOT GRRL Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 33)
    RIOT GRRL Boarding Shotgun, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    TSYKLON Spitfire, Pitcher / Electric Pulse. (1 | 31)
    JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)
    JAGUAR Chain Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 10)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4
    UHAHU Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Icebreaker) Pitcher, D-Charges / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    BRAWLER (Multispectral Visor L2) MULTI Sniper / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 28)
    BRAWLER (Fireteam: Haris) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 17)
    BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)

    5.5 SWC | 299 Points
    Open in Infinity Army




    Am i missing anything obvious? They look ok to me.
     
  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I'd run an Al Hawwa FO over one of the Paramedics in the Supplies/Supremacy list. Deploy it with a cross table flash pulse ARO and it's actually solid defensively (not to mention that it gives you Sabotage as a Classified option).

    While the Paramedic bonus is great, I think more ability to contest the consoles and more survivable points in a zone in Supremacy is better.

    Also, you've got 6 regular orders in that group T1 if you go first. Really 5 because you probably need to drop Raoul T1 so Uahahu will use an order for Supportware. Adding the Al Hawwa will give you one more.

    I'd also seriously consider downgrading a Bandit to a Hardcase. With Raoul and a Bandit you have good strike options, a Hardcase gives you a defensive one: it allows you to clutter up the midfield with another camo marker. It also frees up the points for either an Irmadhino or a Jaguar for smoke for the Brawler. I find that Smoke makes all the difference when dealing with no-linked AROs.

    Raoul is your response to linked AROs.

    Ultimately though, playtest it a little. Personally I think you'll find that you don't need the 3rd AD or second Bandit.

    Re: the second list. All your AD fights under 8". I'd get something with at least a Combi to allow you do state fights from outside of ZOC.
     
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  17. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

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    Lev? have you faced the Kamau yet? I think that might do a serious number on your lists
     
  18. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    My other cancon option was VIRD, so, yes.
     
  19. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    What's your plans for this sort of strong ARO with solid close in defence (Helots)?

    White Noise gives you some options to ignore it. But that's likely to be order intensive and doesn't really help with eliminating it (due SSL2).

    I think having a reliable plan for Kamau type AROs is necessary with the meta the way it is. Any reliable plan for dealing with a Kamau MSR gives you an answer to HaiDao MSR links, Bagh links and Grenzer links: all of which promise to be popular. So much so that I think it's a basic list building question (in just the same way as "How do I deal with a Assisted Fire TR Bot?" or "what happens if my opponent brings a TAG?" has always been a question you should ask during list building).

    I think StarCo actually can struggle against that sort of ARO. The answer is really "Raoul, Emily or a Bandit": which pushes you in a particular direction.

    The other list design those lists may struggle with is Camo spam (I'm thinking TAK or vanilla Ariadna with TAK flavour): there's very little that can reliably hunt down Camo you need removed. What is your plan for dealing with those types of lists?

    Brawler Snipers are, I find, often my best option. But they can't go out and hunt things down. Stempler and 2 Transductors is a solid addition to any list with Uahu in it: but that's actually quite expensive at 34pts, so it's difficult to fit it. Assisted Fire Stemplers are one of the best Camo hunters in the game.

    You can fit a Stempler, Transductor and WarCor in your second list by dropping a Hellcat and Jaguar.

    This also gives you the points for a Dep Rep upgrade for your Hellcat: which gives you a 8-16" rangeband AD weapon and the ability to get a Repeater exactly where you need it without exposing your Tsyklon. The ADHL Hellcat is also an option: you have the SWC and ADHLs are great if it doesn't cost you anything to get them.
     
    #59 inane.imp, Dec 20, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  20. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    Played against TAK a couple of times when they first came out - generally speaking Riot Grrls were the answer against most of the regular camo stuff. The only time they really struggled was against a squad of three oniwaban who appeared in the middle of them (i was unlucky in that i decided to camp them at the end of turn 1 right where my opponent had hidden deployed.)


    I'll be playtesting a bunch starting tomorrow night - already have some alternatives to both of these lists that go heavier into either an Emily link or a Grrl link.