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SSL1 holding aro and multiple active units?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Spleen, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

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    the reactive player has a core linked unit peeking around a corner, but someone has thrown a smoke grenade, blocking its lof.

    the active player then activates a linked Hsien, moving a Zhanying inside zoc of the enemy model, while the Hsien remains outside. Both are behind smoke.

    The reactive model generates a zoc based aro against the Zhanying, and uses SSL1 to opt to hold his aro declaration:

    "In the Reactive Turn, Sixth Sense L1 allows its user to delay his ARO declaration until after the declaration of the second Short Skill of the enemy inside his Zone of Control."

    The Hsien now shoots the model in question but the zhanying does not as it cannot see through the smoke, can the targeted model use its held aro to declare an attack on an enemy who is not within its ZOC, or must it react against a model. who triggered the held aro, much like when holding against camo in a coordinated order?
     
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    There is no rule in this situation which puts a limit to what the enemy model may declare as their held ARO as far as I am aware. Since the Hsien shoots the Sixth Sense L2 model through smoke, returning fire with a BS Attack is a valid ARO to declare.
     
  3. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

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    would the same apply if the closer unit were a camo marker and it was a coordinated order, rather than a link team?

    as far as I can tell nothing in the coordinated rules make it explicit that there is a limit on a held aro, it's only to be inferred from a single example, which makes it not entirely clear on if it's in the nature of general aros and holding of them or the specifics of coordinated orders and holding using the marker state clause
     
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    We've had that discussion fairly recently and it got a bit heated.

    Two positions;
    1. To delay you need to use a rule, if you use the Sixth Sense rule you will not be tied to specific reactions nor otherwise limited
    2. A delay is a delay is a delay, and Camo puts limitations on what you can do if you delay

    Personally I was convinced by the people arguing for position 1 that position 2 is the only sane way to read the rules, as I found their arguments got absurd and relied on text that couldn't be found in the rulebook, but know that position 1 is the generally held position of the community.

    Here's the results of the different readings:
    1. Situation largely unchanged from the previous example. Note that if the Hsien decides to Move as second Short Skill and Moves into LOF, they can shoot the Hsien.
    2. Situation largely unchanged from the previous example, but they will lose their ARO opportunity versus the Camouflage Marker if the second Short Skill is a Short Movement Skill (so no Change Facing or Reset, and no Discover if the Marker walks into LOF). Note that, just like in 1, if they gain LOF to the Hsien due to the second Move, they can still shoot the Hsien because Camouflage only restricts AROs versus the Camouflage Marker when delaying.
     
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  5. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Well-Known Member

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    From the wiki:

    REQUIREMENTS

    In order to use Sixth Sense L1,
    • An enemy must be inside the user's Zone of Control.
    • That enemy must declare an Attack against the user.
    ...

    In the Reactive Turn, Sixth Sense L1 allows its user to delay his ARO declaration until after the declaration of the second Short Skill of the enemy inside his Zone of Control.
    ---

    My emphasis on "that" and "the."

    It would seem that in the example, the requirements to use SS1 aren't met because the enemy inside ZoC didn't declare an attack against the sixth sense user.

    So I would say that SS1 lets you delay your ARO because the Zhanying is inside your ZoC, but when the Zhanying then doesn't (can't) attack you, the ARO is lost because the requirements to use SS1 aren't met.
     
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  6. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Examples clearly show that this requirement is... not.
     
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  7. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Well-Known Member

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    Good point. "Had the Alguacil declared a further Movement instead of a BS Attack, the Maakrep Tracker would have been able to declare an ARO against an unseen active enemy inside her Zone of Control (Change Facing)."

    So you can delay and then ARO even if the model doesn't shoot you. The requirement that they declare an attack must be referring to the other benefits of sixth sense, i.e. being able to shoot back with no penalty.
     
  8. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    I believe this is the case. Dodge does it slightly better, where certain requirements unlock specific bullet points in the effects, but it's still a bit messy. SSL is one of the worst written rules in the game, however.