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Speculo in Onyx Now!

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by RattlerNxt, May 17, 2018.

  1. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Mimetism gives it some staying power as well.
     
  2. Dustin

    Dustin Member

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    Ok I tried it just like it is here. Played JSA in coms center and a 10-0 Victory for Onyx, I actually walked the umbra into a normal roll ARO on my first order and got him killed, but the rest of the list hit very hard. Especially the Fracta Who Walked on and just Wrecked Shop with his boarding Shotgun killing a Daiyokai, Domaru, Keitsotsu, and a Rui Shi. The Rodocks and The Suryats capped objectives and that rocket launcher is no joke. A fun list that I will play again. Recommend going first and inflicting mass pain.
     
  3. derbrizon

    derbrizon Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha utstanding. I'm glad it worked out! The suryat duo has treated me well in the past. The hrl variant is unbelievably useful.
     
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  4. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    Playing JSA of late - with as many as 3 Ryuken Minelayers in a list - I can't see the value in Monomines this edition. Mines are too easily countered and you only get the 1 Mono hit. If they still laid the monoweb that cut people up when they tried to walk through it, sure... but as is? Nah.
     
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  5. Skjarr

    Skjarr EI Mouthpiece

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    I can see some situational value if people decide to just tank the hit with a TAG or HI thinking it's just a normal AP mine. Would cause some sweaty palms once it was revealed as a mono mine!
    However that's not really enough to justify the SWC cost imo.
     
  6. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    Sadly you have to tell them that kind of mines the Malignos is armed with because somehow thats not private info. =(
     
  7. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    Yeah - mines not being private info, nor the skill or use of the skill Minelayer for that matter, pretty much nerfs any ability to confuse your opponent or trick them into something.

    The only confusion you can ever pull is deploying multiple camo tokens within 8" of a minelayer model who is using the skill - and even that doesn't really leave much to the imagination in most circumstances.
     
  8. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Sounds like you're thinking of Mines as a purely defensive weapon. They're generally more effective in the active turn, and for Monomines that goes double. For example:
    1. Malignos comes up to a corner near a TAG (or HI Fireteam etc.) and lays a Monomine.
    2. Now hack the target, via a Malignos, Shrouded, via Pitchers etc.
    3. Watch the target realise that resetting against the Hacking Attack will set off the Monomine with no chance to Dodge, leaving them with a choice of an unopposed Possession/Isolated attempt, or a 60% chance of simply losing anything under the template.
    You can also replace step two with firing with a low-Burst weapon that you might not normally use in the active turn, like Kiss's ADHL, as firing back is going to be very risky for the target.
     
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  9. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I'm pretty adept at active turn mines. I used to take apart Steel Phalanx with Shrouded all the time using the "deploy mine from around the corner and then prompt AROs" tactic.

    But recent games have seen me playing predominantly against forces where those tactics are less useful, or where the models with the mines aren't in a position to take advantage. And when you look at the MonoMalig, its a 38/1 investment for those mines. This is a pretty heft unit cost, and the mines are about the same as A/P mines when used against a wide variety of targets. Yes - vs TAGs it is amaze. vs HI links it is amaze. But I can't guarantee I'll face those...

    For the same or similar cost, I tend to sink my points/swc into options that are more reliable against wider varieties of targets. 38/1 is pretty close to the cost of most Missile Launcher options available to CA, for example (less points and 0.5 swc more for Rodok/Nocti missile or for my linked Tanko in JSA). Not trying to boohoo the mine tactics in general, they are certainly valid, but they tend to suit my playstyle less and less - and my regular opponents are pretty darn savvy to my tricks (eh, Leviathan?).
     
  10. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    Slightly off topic - my Speculo is a bit jelly of the Fiday profile with mines :(
     
  11. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    Doesn't help that I play the same army :P
     
  12. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    Also, are monofil mines really considered strong enough for a 1 SWC tax these days? Monofil is pretty freaking abundant these days... Stuff like Tanko and Kanren don't pay SWC to carry a blenderstick... The Samaritan doesn't even pay SWC for his insta-kill boomerang...

    Or is it just something that has gone under the radar because there are only 2 or 3 profiles in the game that get them?
     
  13. Skjarr

    Skjarr EI Mouthpiece

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    I have a suspicion that it's largely due to the fact they are on a Shas unit and they are a bit wonky these days.
    There is a unit with mono mines that pays no SWC, Nagas I think.
     
  14. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Game balance is a thing.

    So No
     
  15. Skjarr

    Skjarr EI Mouthpiece

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    Are you referring to the OP regarding Speculos in Onyx?
     
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  16. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    yup, little late to the party
     
  17. Skjarr

    Skjarr EI Mouthpiece

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    Cool. Just checking as in typical fashion the thread has diverged somewhat!

    Tbf I can see why they aren't there.
    Plus it means there is one less thing I have to deliberate about spending SWC on in Onyx!
     
  18. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    because Onyx, like TJC is a "PanO style" sectorial.

    The playrbase clamoured for their cake, their good gunfighter/TAG cakce, they got that, and probably are getting it in future sectorials. but they arent getting it with the standard access to the same old tools like smoke and impoersonators
     
  19. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    I don't get how it is "PanO style" or how Onyx is something the player base asked for... but after looking through the "How to fix PanO" thread, I'd rather you didn't associate us with them :joy:
     
  20. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Well, I play both Pano and Combine Army and Onyx really is Pano's playstyle. The sectorial lacks smoke and is very focused on shooting everything and then garbing objectives. It just that unlike Pano, Onyx has more flexibility with more toolboxes such as better hacking and plasma weapons.

    And combine army players weren't exactly happy with thier two sectorials being Morats and Shasvastii, both being rather limited in what they were able to do compared to generic CA. On the other hand, Onyx added some nifty lore as well as very shooty (with no smoke = pano style) game play which was different enough from what you typically see in generic CA to add gameplay variety.

    So while Onyx was a complete surprise to CA players, it was a very welcomed surprise that certainly improved the faction as a whole.