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Special Dodge, blocking LoF and Face to Face rolls

Discussion in 'Rules' started by n21lv, Sep 18, 2019.

  1. n21lv

    n21lv SymbioHate

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    Introduction
    Special Dodge states:
    Smoke and Special Dodge
    Unlike other Special Ammunition, Smoke can be used to avoid enemy Attacks, but only if those Attacks require LoF and a Roll, and their LoF is blocked by the Smoke Circular Template being placed.​

    It seems there might be some disagreement in reading the 'and their LoF is blocked by the Smoke Circular Template being placed' part. I've always read it literally -- the template must completely block any line of fire originating from the firing troop to the troop throwing Smoke. But yesterday we had an argument with another player, and he presented a quite logical base to his version -- if you're touching the Smoke template, you benefit from its effects, therefore LoF is blocked.

    Situation
    Troop A belongs to the Active Player. Troops B, C and D belong to the Reactive Player.
    Troop A declares a BS Attack with an Eclipse Smoke Grenade, placing the template as shown. Troops B, C and D declare they will ARO with BS Attacks. Blue line denotes Trooper D's LoF.

    Question
    Does Special Dodge apply to the interaction between Troops A and D and therefore, is this interaction a Face-to-Face roll?

    upload_2019-9-18_11-53-19.png
     
    #1 n21lv, Sep 18, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  2. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    The other person is also reading it literally. LoF is blocked by the Circular Template being placed.
     
  3. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Did A move during his order ?

    If "no", then A is included in the no visibility zone of the smoke (as he is under the template) so LoF is blocked so => special dodge

    If "yes", then we will have to check the movement path and we need to know at which point of the movement D is shooting A
     
    #3 Arkhos94, Sep 18, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  4. n21lv

    n21lv SymbioHate

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    Please, @ijw, Infinity rules are ambiguous enough, and the last thing I want is the added difficulty of trying to understand the meaning of your answer. A simple 'yes' or 'no' to asnwer the question would be sufficient.
     
    theradrussian likes this.
  5. n21lv

    n21lv SymbioHate

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    Do you mean that if there is a point during the Troop A's movement path where Troop A doesn't benefit from the Smoke template being placed, Troop D would be able shoot back at Troop A at that point with a Normal roll?
     
    theradrussian likes this.
  6. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    The template has been placed where it blocks LoF, because A will be inside the Zero Visibility Zone. Therefore the Special Dodge rule applies.
     
    Xeurian, colbrook and n21lv like this.
  7. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Yep.

    Let's imagine that A first action was move and that he started 10 cm up than in your picture.

    With a template placed like this, D could shoot him before he entered the template, resulting in a normal roll.

    Of course after D declared his ARO attack and specified at which point of A movement he shoot, A could easily place his template in a way to cover all LoF

    Edit : after reading @colbrook answer I checked the BS attack page and he is right. D will only specify at which point of A he shoot at resolution so A will need to cover all of his movement to have special dodge
     
    #7 Arkhos94, Sep 18, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
    n21lv likes this.
  8. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Yes, if A has moved the smoke would need to hide the entire movement
     
    n21lv likes this.
  9. n21lv

    n21lv SymbioHate

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    Thanks everyone.

    I would like to note the poor word choice for this paragraph, because in its current form it implies that the player somehow knows that blocked in "and their LoF is blocked by the Smoke Circular Template being placed" means benefits from the effects of Smoke Special Ammunition, and not literally blocked. It's a high-context wording, which only adds difficulty to understanding the already convoluted rules.

    I think the paragraph would be much more clear if it was written like this:
    Unlike other Special Ammunition, Smoke can be used to avoid enemy Attacks, but only those that meet all of these requirements:
    • the opposed Attack requires LoF and a Roll
    • during Reactive turn: the Troop using Smoke Special Ammunition benefits from the Zero Visibility Zone the Circular Template being placed would create
    • during Active turn: same as for Reactive turn, but the requirement must also be met at any point of movement path of the Active troop, to which LoF can be drawn by enemy Troops
     
  10. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    LoF is blocked to anyone that touches the template, that's just using more words to say the same thing IMHO.
     
    BLOODGOD, Section9 and Mahtamori like this.
  11. n21lv

    n21lv SymbioHate

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    Sure, but that is much more clear and less prone for multiple interpretations. If anything, rules for complex games benefit from wordy rules. Imagine if MTG ruleset was written like Infinity.
     
    Hecaton likes this.
  12. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    I know laws that are written like Infinity rules so...