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Space Marines sell, I guess

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Hecaton, Apr 7, 2021.

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  1. jake richmond

    jake richmond Well-Known Member

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    I don't think any of that is true.

    I seriously doubt that CB designed military Orders to appeal to Space Marie players. That's just not generally how creative processes work (and I say this as an expert), and from what we've seen of CB over the years that doesn't seem to be how they design anything.

    I think you're conflating 40K players being attracted to Military Orders with CB trying to attract 40K players. One doesn't mean the other.

    I also think you're very wrong about the setting suffering from including Military Orders. PanO is already an extremely diverse faction. Military Orders are only a small part of that. Varuna, Neo Terra and Acontecimento are all armies where Knights play only a minor role and are defiantly not the focus. PanO has been shown as a diverse society form the very earliest releases. Church units only make up about 1/6th of PanO units, and most of them aren't particularly relevant outside of MO.

    Saying "the only relevant people in it are white space Catholics." is pretty ridiculous, especially since we have no evidence that any of those units (outside of two named characters who don't wear helmets) are white. And especially when an extremely large percentage of modern Catholics aren't.
     
  2. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    And if we look at several of the founding/early nations of PanOceania (the Philippines, Chile, Brasil), having a strong Catholic presence is almost a given.
     
  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It's not balanced against the Muslim presence that exists in SEA, or the Hindus. Islam would be the majority religion of the original four founding nations of PanO.
     
  4. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    All of the named MO characters are white, or a cyborg (in Joan's case).
     
  5. jake richmond

    jake richmond Well-Known Member

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    Again, so?

    We're talking about 4 characters, one of which wears helmet so their ethnicity isn't clear. I'd love to see more non-white characters in MO, but your claim that the only relevant people in PanO are "white space Catholics." continues to be both unfounded and dumb.

    What you clearly mean is that you've decided to ignore every part of PanO that doesn't fit your "Knights are boring" viewpoint.
     
  6. 1337Bolshevik

    1337Bolshevik Active Member

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    Paola Duarte and Mendoza could very easily be of Latin American heritage.
     
  7. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    And even then the claim is, on it's face, false. Shona Carano is simply stated to be Neoterran, which does not equal "white", and with the name, likely not someone who neatly meshes into any of the modern stupidities regarding groups. Dart is Paola Duarte, from Acontecimento, and, again, not someone who would fit easily into the idiocy of modern classifications. De Fersen's background doesn't mention his place of birth, only the hedonism of his youth and conversion. Juan Diaz Mendoza? C'mon, son. And a cyborg is a cyborg. Seems mostly someone wanting things to fit a certain narrative, and ignoring any evidence to the contrary.
     
  8. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Is there any indication that the demographics ratios of people who went offworld match the demographics of Panoceania as a whole? I feel like wealth likely filtered out a lot of Indonesians and Malaysians, as would the difficulty facing Mecca from Paradiso.

    That said, I'd certainly like to see more black hair and different skin colours in the PanO studio range.
     
    #28 the huanglong, Apr 8, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
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  9. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Wealth likely played a role, however at the same time the need for large labor pools would probably have made emigration available to a larger cross section of society. It brings to mind the expansion into the American West, with a interstellar flair.
     
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  10. SpectralOwl

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    I mean, if I'm seeing anything in the spread of characters that's overrepresented, it's the Spanish demographic (several characters in PanO and Nomads). And there's a good reason for that. If anything I'd like to see an Aussie or a Kiwi for PanO, the closest the original economic heart of PanO has to a character is maybe Patsy Garnet, and I'm only guessing that because she's very white and generic. CB doesn't do subtle when they make references or character backgrounds, if an Australian Aborigine or a Maori or a Pacific Islander got a profile we'd know it, plus have a half-page of fluff about how their ethnicity's ancient customs make them into a badass hunter (ahem... Rao and the Bagh-Mari, Vasily Plushenko, the Hundun, the Nisse, Uma Sorensen, Gunnar, the Bandits, the Morans, the Hardcases, the Oznats, The Raicho, probably more I'm not Haqqislamic enough to remember).

    Most of the rich like their giant properties on Earth, in stable regions with good tax laws. If I remember my history right it's usually the poor who emigrate en masse to new colonies in order to follow the jobs. Actually explains why Europeans are so darned prevalent on Neoterra; the EU was skint broke after the disaster that was Arianda so there'd be a lot of incentive to try one's luck elsewhere, especially with the Pope's blessing and personal presence at the new world.
     
  11. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Richard Quinn is another example of a more Anglophone name, as is Hawkwood. PanO seems to have a decent balance, with Svalarheima seeming to overshadow everything else.

    Yeah, the new supernations deciding to relocate their capitals and seats of power in the colonies would certainly have helped, plus what you noted about folks looking at their current lives and saying "why not try for something better off world?" Worked for my ancestors.
     
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  12. Sigeric

    Sigeric Irregular WB

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    Well, if the writers are clever and subtle enough, such characters can exist without becoming a sad caricature of their views. Like those invincibles chanting himns in the betrayal manga but, y'know, more nuanced.

    And, personally, I'd like to see a straight edge, preachy, holier than thou knight fellow crash landing in the middle of Bakunin with half a bible and a pocket knife.

    By Jingo, the Morat shall not have Neo-Constantinople.
     
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  13. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I somehow doubt it. Though Mendoza is actually multiple different people, so who knows.
     
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I mean, nah, all the named characters in MO are either toasters or white Europeans, there's no reason to think the non-named personnel are different.
     
  15. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I am not sure how? or why? this discussion became an issue of skin colour? I would appreciate it though if the subject was changed.

    As far as I am concerned the church does not care for the skin of their devotees, neither are the Military Orders.
     
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  16. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    This argument is as ridiculous as saying I guess imperial guard sells and pointing at the entirety of yu jing.

    Look at all those guys worshipping an emperor , and being in an army and penal legions, and political officers. Wow such 40k much pauldrons, many grim dark
     
  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It's relevant, though, because you have this massively diverse, large society and the only grouping within it based on ideology/identity and not geography is Catholic and entirely white. And they're given outsized importance compared to any nonwhite, non-Catholic part of the faction.
     
    #37 Hecaton, Apr 8, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
  18. Vakarian

    Vakarian Bad Nomad

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    Have we really reached the point where a post that does nothing other than post a Facebook screenshot and a snide comment about a faction doesn’t just get locked and deleted? What possible benefit does this bring to the forum and the community?

    @Koni
    @psychoticstorm
     
  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    They're not European/Anglo, though, so they don't attract the same fanbase.
     
  20. Metal730

    Metal730 Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    100% - This is a bad troll post without blocking out names and should really just be locked for the bait that it is.
     
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