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Sooo.... what's gonna be in Svalarheima?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Mikes, Nov 27, 2019.

  1. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Doubtful, though. Hospitallers and ORCs will be the primary HI, maybe with something new as the third. And enough Hospitallers for a Fireteam of any kind seems like it would be a bit much. Maybe as a wildcard, with Fusis or Nisses.
     
  2. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Well, at this point I think it's very likely that we will have:

    FUSILIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
    MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15)
    TECH-BEE (Remote Assistant Level 1, Specialist Operative) Flash Pulse / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3)
    UMA SØRENSEN (CH: Camouflage) 2 x Submachine Gun, Breaker Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 37)
    NISSE Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    KNIGHT HOSPITALLER MULTI Rifle / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 35)
    MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 22)
    JOTUM MULTI HMG + Heavy Flamethrower, D.E.P. / . (2 | 103)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / Knife. ()
    BULLETEER Heavy Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    PALBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    CLIPPER DRONBOT Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    MULEBOT (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    VALKYRIE Heavy Shotgun, Grenades / Heavy Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 35)

    And I think that still leaves a few obvious gaps.

    So there may well be a unique drop troop of some kind (or an ALEPH option), perhaps another TAG, some kind of skirmisher and maybe something else unique (even an elite LI option).
     
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  3. Musterkrux

    Musterkrux Well-Known Member

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    JCJF, why does your list not include Order Sargents? Between the Hospitaller connection and that they featured well in the Closed Battle List, I feel like they have a place in Svalarheima.
     
  4. chaos11

    chaos11 Well-Known Member

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    Weren't they said to be a stand in for a new unit in the Closed Battle Lists?
     
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  5. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    Afaik it was noted somewhere that some troops in the Sval CBLs were placeholders for unreleased Sval troops. A new LI troop being specifically mentioned. Has been a long time ago, so might be subject to change.

    So after stretching that one strained strand of logic you claim to have there, with all the 10 or so addendums necessary and required to make that work I'm willing to admit you have a mathematically possible point. 10^(-10) or so, would require someone at CB to come up with the same niche ideas as you but mathematically possible.

    And here comes the reality check:
    "Being based on Svalarheima doesn't make it a Svalarheim unit."
    That's plain and simple delusional. Arguing troops not being available to native Sectorials using Hospitalers as an example makes no sense.
    Couple years after, you know 3 or so of the Blizzard CBL had them included, multiple fluff references making abundandtly clear that Hospitalers are Sval forces through and through, etc.

    I'm not even against splitting MO off if that gives them another rework, Deus knows they could use a second attempt and I couldn't care less about throwing fluff under the bus in faciur of a better game. But I don't call thw shots and there just hasn't been any sort of indicator that's remotely realistic in game (yadda yadda fluff) or reality (there's a reason why we have 7 Joan Sculpts - because Space Knights sell rather nicely).

    So cool theory mate, Reddit would probably love that, the forum however will continue to give you shit for it and there isn't much you can do about that considering your sometimes livid history of dabbling in shitposting.

    Sorry man, but hard to get behind the same point with you even if it wasn't far fetched.

    Chances are Sval will be to MO what Dashat is to Ramah - a better execution of the same concept.

    This is still a free country and you're obviously welcome to continue your Don Quichotte quest for your vision of the game.
     
    #145 Teslarod, Jan 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
    Cthulhu363, AdmiralJCJF, eciu and 3 others like this.
  6. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Though we've more chance of seeing a Don Quixote recreation included in Svalarheima than the Neocatholic Church/MO being removed from PanO.
     
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  7. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    Cool, so Ariadnan forces on Paradiso are Paradiso forces then? Because that's what my statement is spelling out. I'm not sure why it is seemingly so difficult to grasp for you lot.

    You yourself stated that the Blizzard CBL had "some troops as placeholders" in any regards. I've not said "THERE SHOULD BE NO KNIGHTS!".

    I've said "KNIGHTS SHOULD BE TREATED LIKE MERCENARY UNITS, NOT PART OF PANO!". Cut that crap from vanilla, make them a NA2, and let's get some design space freed up.
    Supposedly*

    This is an important fact that people need to understand with regards to Corvus Belli. They're a private company, and basically anything about their inner workings that we get? It's unverifiable.
    The fact that your post is "liked" by a far, faaaaaaaaaar more prominent shitposter who is somehow considered highly here boggles my mind. Someone who constantly engaged in personal attacks on the old forum and is pretty consistent in flamebaiting/trolling here, yet I'm always considered the spammer/shitposter/whatever.

    For the record though? "Shitposting" isn't "posted something I disagree with".
    Obviously I am...except when you want to call it shitposting, apparently.
     
  8. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    Because being moved into a NA2 means obviously it has to be removed from PanO in the fluff too. Much like how the Mercenary Companies featuring YJ, Nomad, PanO, etc units mean those units are removed from their parent factions.

    This is why we can't have an actual conversation about things.
     
  9. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    You can't remove knights from PanO without massively crippling Vanilla; Joan is Vanilla PanO's one saving grace.

    People who play the game are aware of that.

    You'd need to find a way to incentivize Vanilla PanO, which would require way more adjustment than simply pulling a bunch of units out of the army.

    I don't hate the "MO as NA2" idea, but I'd be more inclined to rebuild the knightly orders so that they're more useful.
     
  10. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    It’s the difficulty in the game CB has chosen to make, and they way they approach it. The Church is such an enmeshed and integral part of PanO, both on the table and in universe, that splitting it out is entirely unrealistic. As you mentioned, Joan is such a lynchpin she can’t go anywhere, plus being PanO’s Recreation limits that even more. Plus the way the different MO troops fit their sectorials... not likely to see much change. Also, ultimately, CB will bring out the armies they want and how they want, which means an MO as part of PanO.
     
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  11. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    Which is a hideously poor design, as those amazing "people who play the game" should be aware of.
    And those same people tend to be the ones who whine about GW and their "hero-centric" armies too. The hypocrisy is never stronger than in threads about ditching Military Orders from PanO.
    When most of those "units" fulfill similar roles, are extremely low AVA to begin with, and are crutches used alongside a shoddy character?

    I'm cool with it.
    And I'd be more inclined to strip them out and actually let the army stand on its own two feet for awhile.

    Truthfully, I'd go a step further and strip The Observance out of Bakunin/Nomads as well since they have a similar issue with the design space there. Which goes to the whole point of why I keep saying "Strip Military Orders out of PanO and put them as a NA2". They get used as a crutch when CB doesn't seem to want to actually make something unique and/or interesting.
     
  12. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    It's very poor design sense. I don't like Vanilla PanO at all, and never have.

    But you don't address the practical aspects of undoing that design issue. It's why your posts come off as ranting on the internet.

    Keep your generalizations to yourself.

    No, MO has something useful to offer PanO, but they need to be redesigned to maximize it. PanO is notoriously weak in the areas of CQB, direct templates, close combat, and general staying power outside of active-turn gunfighting. MO's well-poised to be able to enhance those strengths, but would benefit from a ground-up redesign. A good example are Magisters: they could very easily be a unique HI-style warband, given their low cost and Hyper Dynamics. Coordinating multiple of them to get up the table and cause problems would be a breath of fresh air for the Vanilla design space. However, they're AVA1 in Vanilla.

    These are the kinds of things i'd like to see redesigned next edition, if MO were to stick around. As I said, I don't hate the MO-to-NA2 idea, but a lot more work needs to go into it than what you're proposing. It's this kind of half-baked discussion that allows companies to dismiss community input; it's underdeveloped, it's unfinished, with nothing substantiated or made evident.

    And to steer things back onto the main topic, I still think Hospitallers in Svalarheima are going to be a tabletop benefit for the Sectorial. That's the kind of MO-to-PanO integration that actually works on the table.
     
  13. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    The practical aspects of undoing that design issue are you have to undo that design issue to start with.

    Yeah, my posts will come off as "ranting on the internet" but since CB is a private company with nobody that they are beholden to? All I can really do is shout into the ether.
    Might want to tell others on this same forum the same thing then.

    On the flipside, why should I develop it? Why should I finish it? Why should I do the work when I'm not getting paid for it?

    You might be right that CB is able to just dismiss it as underdeveloped, unfinished, etc--but there is literally no incentive for me to do any of what you've said when I know that even if I had a better reputation or was a far more polite person that it wouldn't be taken seriously. I'm not someone "who plays" often enough and I don't do tournaments, so much like in video games now--my opinion apparently doesn't mean shit.

    Which is the kind of integration that I've literally suggested as remaining--barring things like them being Wildcards, etc. I don't view the Military Orders and their Knights as "leaders" in any real sense(which is, IMO, what the Wildcards are supposed to be representing--someone who has the leadership qualities/skills to allow them to work in a diverse environment with individuals that have skills different to theirs). The Father-Knights, maybe, or the Order Sergeants--but the Knights are seemingly too enmeshed into their own pseudo-culture to be reasonably able to be able to do that.
     
  14. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Part of the difficulty is balancing a unit’s design for both Vanilla and Sectorial application. Yes, higher AVA Magisters would be a Godsend in Vanilla, which is likely why they have such a low AVA.

    It will be interesting to see what kind of AVA and Fireteam option Hospitalers get. I could see them in something like an Aquila Guard role, an FTO option rather than their own Core option, perhaps a Haris.
     
  15. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
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    I find precious few knights making their way into my Vanilla lists. My most frequent models to look for would be the Santiagos or the Hospitalier Doc. I find the vanilla crunch to be a bit much for other units and I want multi use packages.
     
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  16. Yinsania

    Yinsania айхаас хэт галзуурсан

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    I would prefer new viking/nordic like units
     
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  17. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Definitely a probability, likely one LI, MI and HI.
     
  18. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    3+ new units and a character or two is a pretty solid bet for a new Sectorial.
     
  19. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Likely at least one more in each of the LI, MI and HI categories, perhaps two in the LI and MI. A SK or WB is a possibility, and if there's not a second TAG option, a third HI is highly likely as well.
     
  20. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    Oy mate, it hurts you think of Vanilla like this ;P
    Losing MO would't actually matter that much - there's a lot to like besides Joan. The other Sectorials also don't lose anything crucial, aside from Antimaterial CCWs. Getting rid of that one ITS mission requiring them would solve that.
    In which universe do I care who upvotes my posts if at all? Again, this ain't Reddit, you might be happier there...

    If you wanna play a game under those rules what does that tell you about yourself?
    Does a lack of upvotes make you a misunderstood genius, special snowflake, ahead of your time or simply alone with your oppinion on that hill you picked to die on?

    Might help you and everyone that has to deal with your point of view in a discussion if you could start acting a bit less melodramatic.
    And maaaybe consider some concessions or a revisit of your own posting once in a while, eh?
    Just a recommendation old sport, no hard feelings. Bad wrapping can ruin the best present, maybe time to work a bit on your diplomacy to get heard insead of just yelling at a crowd more than happy to ignore your opinion.
     
    #160 Teslarod, Jan 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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