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Sooo.... what's gonna be in Svalarheima?

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Mikes, Nov 27, 2019.

  1. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    This all assumes an army goes dormant/OOP, and even then, as mentioned up thread, adding a SWF Uhlan if NCA gets shelved keeps the Stingray-3 box viable on the table.
     
  2. Ceilican

    Ceilican Well-Known Member

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    The Uhlan would still be usable in vanilla. Discontinuing NCA doesn’t have to mean that everything with an NCA model has to be discontinued as well. Otherwise we’d be saying bye to Beyond icestorm, along with its Kriza Borac.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  3. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    I think that MO will be retired. That was the second sectorial the less sold after ASA. Until VIRD came in, NCA was the most selling sectorial of the PanO range. You don't kill the golden goose. So yes, KotHS, MO starter, OS Spitfire, Teuton Box will retire. But I doubt the new range will go OOP. If they still keep Brethren, Magister, Hospitallers (and DeFersen) and OS in SWF, there is no need to retire any recently designed box. I think that they will keep Joan because she is the Diva in PanO. I don't know what will happen to FK and Seraph. Seraph could be part of SWF as a Hospitaller unit or not and retired. Same for FK.
     
  4. Seraphin

    Seraphin Well-Known Member

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    SWF may end up as better designed MO + options, having the mentioned new sculpts of MO with addition of who knows, Valkyrie, Varangians, Uma and some classic Nisse & Jotum action.
     
    eciu likes this.
  5. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    "better designed" I don't know (because I love how MO is at the moment) but more in point with how people wanted MO to be, sure. Though, I still think that SWF will be one of our heavier (if not the heaviest) sectorial and not as spammy as the three others can be. I think that the sectorial will be able to reach 15 orders without that much problems but I wouldn't expect to be able to get more without huge sacrifices. I'm really intrigued about how Gutier has decided to build this sectorial. There are room to make everyone hyping or going back to saltmining again.
     
  6. archon

    archon Well-Known Member

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    Looks like we have different opinions here :smirk:

    Yeah a shame. Thats why I wrote I don´t want to say, MO stuff is too new because CB kicked the Acon Starter of the shelfes.

    For Akali Spitfire I think they want to keep a generic AD-Troop with SWC option. I doubt that the Swiss ML will see a resculpt soon, because the go to profile is HMG. I agree with the Bolt box, but at least there is a paramedic/generic Bolt in the beyond box :smirk:

    Varuna got three new units. The Echo, the Zulus and the Helots plus Patsy. The others were more or less reworks of existing units. So yes, three and a char will do.

    Yeah - I never understand why the Tik found a new home in MO. But NCA has already two TAGs so maybe this is the only reason.
     
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  7. Ceilican

    Ceilican Well-Known Member

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    I agree on the Akal. Plus it's a unit included with the generic starter, so having a separate option available still isn't totally unexpected.

    I was under the impression that the highly-used swiss profiles were the Swissile and the Hacker. If that's not accurate, then, yeah, not really a need to provide a Swiss resculpt.
     
  8. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    The Tikbalang should have been in Varuna

    Come it, it's perfect for Varuna. It's totally their jam. Sneaky and flexible.
     
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  9. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    I think it might not be because it'd be too good there.
     
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  10. Sungwon

    Sungwon Member

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    I also don't want the SWF to be MO v2 but why nobody talks about Seraph? Seraph has the auxbot to keep everyone warm (or hot).
     
    Mikes likes this.
  11. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    Then they could, I dunno, rework it? Put it in NCA? Put it into Foreign Company?

    Knights shouldn't have gotten it. End of story.

    Why would we talk about the Seraph? It's not Svalarheim. It's Military Order shit.
     
  12. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    I know you like to ignore reality, but that Hopsitaller's HQ on Svalarheima isn't going anywhere.
     
    Cthulhu363 and AdmiralJCJF like this.
  13. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    Simply being based on Svalarheima doesn't make it a Svalarheim unit.

    This, seemingly, is the part that you lot can't seem to grasp or don't seem to want to grasp.

    That's the argument, constantly, to be made for putting Military Orders into a NA2 and working from there. CB has constantly made a Big Deal about how "powerful" the church lobby is, blah blah blah--money where mouth is time. Cut them off into a NA2 like JSA got.

    You want some 'shared units'? There's still room for that. JSA leaving didn't mean they lost the remotes from YJ and YJ didn't lose Ninjas.
     
  14. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Combining some MO units with a more traditional PanO Sectorial structure is a good idea. Svalarheima will probably be a better Sectorial from a competitive standpoint, if it can draw from some MO units as well as traditional PanO choices (strong firepower, highly point-optimized choices, etc.)

    One big downside of MO is that it can't fully utilize the lean, optimized profiles that other PanO armies are famous for. One big ownside of those other PanO armies is that they lack the full tactical toolbox (Close Combat, multi-role Heavy Infantry Haris, etc.)

    Sval could overcome those downsides and end up being PanO's most well-rounded force.

    Something like a Duo/Haris of Hospitallers, a couple of Spec Sgts, backed up [Svalarheima Line Infantry link] and decent AVA of REMs could easily hit that ~15 Order sweet spot and present a lot of tactical flexibility.
     
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  15. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    I really can't be sympathetic. I just can't be. Military Orders are the weight around PanO's neck when it comes to the design space.

    Whether CB will ever admit it or not(spoiler: they probably won't), it was an awful idea to ever put the Military Orders in as their own Sectorial and it's been an even more awful idea to continue building the church up like it is some symbiotic entity that PanOceania needs to survive rather than just a parasitic entity that happens to exist like a big corporation.

    Splitting the Military Orders off into a NA2, despite the constant "NO YOU CAN'T! THE CHURCH IS PANO!" nonsense makes far more sense than any of the wishlisting in this thread that has included "put Knights in Svalarheima!".

    It also allows for exactly what you're insinuating needs to happen, "combining some MO units with a more traditional PanO sectorial structure" since the fluff of the Military Orders literally has always talked about things like the Order Sergeants or Crusader Brethren being potentially "retired" or "seconded" PanOceanian military as part of the terms of their Resurrection.
    We've seen that the NA2s, effectively, are being used as a way for them to have "allies" in the game and to sell us more junk. Push for the NA2 angle and let PanO actually have some damn breathing room for design space away from the goddamned Knights.
     
  16. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Your post has a strange, murky nexus where fluff discussion, Caps Lock and "game design ideas" meet and try to express some kind of point. I'm not quite understanding what that point is though, or what it really achieves for Infinity players. Are you proposing that MO units be removed entirely from PanO? Or proposing that MO units stay in PanO, but the Military Orders Sectorial simply gets relabeled as NA2?
     
  17. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    It really isn't difficult to understand:
    -MO becomes a NA2.
    -PanO loses MO units from vanilla

    Since, as you yourself have loooooooved to argue, there's only small amounts of MO in the Sectorials currently--Military Order then gets treated like it should have been from the outset:
    A foreign body within the faction, with limited availability.

    That will then mean that actual units will have to be designed for PanO, instead of just jamming in <insert MO wishlisted idea from the CB offices> like we've seen.

    Additionally, Montesa Biker gets removed from the game and Tikbalang goes to vanilla only for PanO.
     
  18. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    They already have a Chasseurs regiment, not going to get another. It went to MO as the Montessa variant, makes sense.
     
  19. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    It depends on what you mean by “is”... besides, simpler to beat a dead horse than accept the Church is an integral part of PanO, has been from the beginning, and the possibilities of them splitting off are vanishingly small...
     
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  20. SpectralOwl

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    I believe that the ideal here is somewhere in the middle. We can have medieval crusaders at the same time as we have other things. I for one would be over the moon to finally get a PanO close combat unit that isn't a knight, but old Montessa Knights fit perfectly into their sectorial and even matched aesthetically with ASA as well as MO so we know it can be done well. Hospitallers are pretty dull though so personally I'm hoping for something more aggressive with Spitfire profiles and DTWs as the Haris HI in Sval, since Nisses and Jotums are already great at clearing AROs from long range so the HMG is a little redundant.