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So - We Need To Talk About Tā Moko - Before Varuna

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by AdmiralJCJF, Aug 14, 2018.

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  1. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    Ah the old “I’m not upset, you are!” Remind me who declared they would rage quit a game if someone painted their models wrong? Who said they would petition the company to redress a paint job if they had the wrong skin color?
     
    andre61 and A Mão Esquerda like this.
  2. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Nobody, and the fact that you are mischaracterising what I said in this way proves the point that @Nemo No Name was making.

    Again, you are altering the original comment to suit your aggressively negative characterisation, proving the point. The issue has nothing to do with skin colour, but instead with how Ta Moko is being used and presented.
     
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  3. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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  4. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Yes.

    If Angel painted "a white dude with a Moko" (which I note you deliberately avoided quoting) then I would do exactly what I said.

    And if somebody is being deliberately culturally offensive then I MIGHT walk away from the table.

    But this:

    is still a deliberate mischaracterisation of what I said.
     
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  5. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t deliberately avoid quoting anything. I skimmed through ten pages of comments to grab the most relevant post I could find off hand. The context is still carried out through your reply as it remains the same issue. If you feel that what I say is a mischaracterization, okay. I disagree.
     
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  6. derbrizon

    derbrizon Well-Known Member

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    WTF is happening to my toy soldiers game?
     
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  7. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I *just* fucking asked someone to not put words in my mouth. Do you have me blocked or something?

    What I said was:
    If you deem a significant part of someone's personal identity to be not worth caring about, don't be surprised if someone has a severe reaction to it.
     
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  8. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    Some people are looking to control others and the others are not going for it.
     
  9. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Nothing. We can pay attention or not as we wish.
     
  10. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Nothing. The discussion isn't about the game, it's about people attitudes.

    If someone knows that a certain action might be considered offensive, and deliberately choses to do so, or admits that they don't care, then they shouldn't be surprised they get a negative reaction.

    While I can get the argument that "this is just a game" a fair share of people seems to think that nobody can tell them what to do, or judge their behaviour, and is offended when someone points out that it's ridiculous.

    The whole "they're trying to police the others" argument is flawed at its core, because we should police each other on how we act in public. The extent and forms of that policing IS debatable and SHOULD be debated, but trying to argue that it's unacceptable in its entirety is ridiculous as well.

    Add to that the fact that people who complain about others being offended are in fact the most offended ones in this thread.
     
  11. derbrizon

    derbrizon Well-Known Member

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    No, this is about the game. The notion of identity politics is attempting to wrap itself around painting models and rolling dice. Its ridiculous and unnecessary. The OP was a great information source. Now there's some talk about people needing to adhere to some arbitration. Nah.

    Not quite. Not with people threatening to end games on account of failure to be agreeable enough.
     
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  12. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    I live in the good old USA, and in the USA you have the right to be offensive, we have something called the freedom of speech.
     
  13. FatherKnowsBest

    FatherKnowsBest Red Knight of Curmudgeon

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  14. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Yeah, and it sure as hell didn't start after some people got offended by the idea that someone might choose not to play with them. If someone says he won't play with you and you find their reason for this stupid, just don't play with them anymore. In what way this is encroaching on anyone's freedom? It's not like we're entitled to Infinity games.

    Absolutely. Which in no way restricts the right of others to judge said speech. You have the right to be offensive. The others have the right to call you an asshole in return. Unless you believe that said reactions aren't covered by the freedom of speech?
     
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  15. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    True, but when they’re continents away... yeah, not much to force us to care or not.
     
  16. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    [ ninjas ]

    You know, there used to be a procedure for dealing with insulting individuals. The offended would demand a retraction, seconds would be named (the specific duty of the seconds was to try to keep things from coming to blows), and if a retraction was made that was the end of it. If a retraction was not made, well, things could get messy. If someone refused to retract or to meet someone on the field of honor, it was then the procedure to publicly 'post' the nature of the offense at every location frequented by both the offended and the offender, and the fact that not only was the offender refusing to retract but also refusing to meet the offended on the field. This 'posting' then exhorted everyone else in the community to have nothing to do with someone unwilling to either be polite or to face the consequences of their impoliteness. Basically, "This person is an unrepentant ass, and unless you wish to associate with such a person, you are advised to have no dealings with them."

    For better or worse, we have 'evolved' past the Code Duello. I'm kinda hoping that pubic reputation-networks will take over, and you can simply set the minimum RepNet score for someone to join a forum or whatever else (with a note that "Unrated" is a different score from "zero").



    It deeply concerns me that people are apparently taught this these days.

    The First Amendment is strictly that The Government cannot decide what is offensive speech. Such decision-making for what is or is not offensive speech is strictly left up to the general public. And, at the time, the Code Duello to address.

    If you choose to be offensive, you also have the right to the consequences of that offense.

    At this point, those consequences are someone not playing a game with you.

    Or are you seriously demanding that I be able to force someone not interested in dealing with my bullshit have to play a game with me?
     
  17. derbrizon

    derbrizon Well-Known Member

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    And people have a right to not invite you to a tournament. The angle I'm not liking here is the idea that not even caring is somehow too offensive. The idea that culture is somehow I intrinsically demanding of respect is unworkable. I get it some people care about these tattoos. They can care. That's wonderful. Nobody else has to. I don't have to justify the skin tone choice on my toy soldiers any more than my white-skinned maori neighbor needs to explain herself to me. This is a control game plain and simple, and it's worthless.

    Thank you for the excellent painting guides for tattoos.

    @Stiopa And @A Mão Esquerda : the issue I fear is this attitude imposing itself. It is a keyturn away to travel from "I'm n to going to play with you" to "you should be removed from events." I have watched this happen in this game.
     
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  18. derbrizon

    derbrizon Well-Known Member

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    Yeah.. that procedure is archaic, and still occurs on a basic level today. That idea is bullshit. You don't like a guy, move along instead of turning it into a bandwagoning community mob justice affair. What youre advocating here is attempting to de facto eject someone from a community unless they agree with you.
     
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  19. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry wrong topic
     
    #219 andre61, Aug 22, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
  20. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Lol, I don't even think my argument was specifically targeted at you, but since it now is:
    This game is a fantasy – although it may take inspiration from real life and have real life influences, in no way shape or form does, nor should, it accurately represent the world around us so much so that a tint of paint can cause upset.

    This is reminiscent of the national butt hurt that the new James Bond might be played by Idris Elba. James Bond is fictional, he can look like anything.
    Just as my little crocman is fictional. he is not real. he can look like whatever I want him to look like.
     
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