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So... the CA are evil, right?

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Varsovian, Sep 2, 2020.

  1. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    The CA does engage in genocide; it takes part in targeted exterminations of species who refuse to integrate with it.
     
  2. Sedral

    Sedral White Banner Officier

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    The sheer size of the CA's society makes it more aliens to humans than being made of other life forms, it operates on a completely different scale: a galactic empire doesn't face the same challenge, nor pursue the same goals, as the multi-planets/systems dominions we can see in the Human Sphere. As @Errhile aptly points out, it's on a scale where it is considering how to survive the heat death of the Universe.

    I highly doubt that, individually, Pano, Yu-jing or Aleph would operate very differently if they were of the same size as the combined army... which might very well be the point: See the Combined Army? That's the Human Sphere in thousands of years if Pano, Yu-jing, or Aleph wins and takes it all. One way for the Human Sphere to diverge from this path would be to cease their bickering, form a proper federation (a la Star Trek) and try to peacefully bring everyone under its wing and have them willingly cooperate.
     
    #62 Sedral, Sep 3, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
  3. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    The CA is about as evil as the Mogol empire, who also practiced the surrender or be massacred style of warfare. Using terror as a weapon in war to end them faster. The Mogols were exceptionally brutal and ruthless in war but during peace they led an orderly society that practiced religious tolerance (a rarity at the time) and implemented many advances in science and governance.

    If you lived under the empire in a peaceful area like China you were probably pretty happy about it while those outside the empire or those recently conquered were terrified of the empire. It sounds a lot like the Combine Army. Right down to the Mogol army itself which became a mix of Mogol horsemen and leves from conquered people.
     
    #63 Death, Sep 3, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2020
  4. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Actually, one could argue that the CA are more moral than the Mogol empire since at least the EI has a higher goal to obtain, accession. The Mogols and their extremely violent conquests were fueled by nothing more than greed and a lust for power.
     
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  5. Varsovian

    Varsovian Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but that higher goal is still very selfish.

    BTW. Mongols, not Mogols ;) The Mogols (AKA the Mughals) were a completely unrelated empire from a different time and area.
     
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  6. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    Eh less Mongol Emprie and more Roman. The Roman Empire was surrender and join or die, had slavery and a lot of aggressive expansion at the expense of human tragedy as core policies. They stuck around long enough and integrated the 3rd and so on generation after, who couldn't remember the conquest days as more than tales.
    Those people remembered the streets, aquaeducts, trade and commerce more clearly and fondly.

    Romans were as bad as any other conqueror (see Carthage), but they stuck around after and kept working on their PR with more than empty promises afterwards.
    Most successor nations proudly embrace their involuntary part in the Roman empire, while occupation by the Mongol Empire is seen more of a stain on the country's honor.

    Since CA is less of a bonfire in history and more a thing that has been around for eons I'd assume those integrated with them see them as beneficial, integration probably happened so long ago it may exist as ancient history if someone were to really go looking.
    Growth and stability come with peace. As long as war happens beyond your borders, your culture will grow and thrive. Most of North America and Europe hasn't seen a war in the last 70, the people who even remember first hand retellings for WW2 are slowly fading out of society and it gets committed more and more into history rather than present day conscience.
     
    #66 Teslarod, Sep 4, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
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  7. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    I had no idea that Mogols was a different people. That was just me sucking at spelling. lol

    Also, blasphemy! How dare you question the pure intentions of our glorious overlord, the EI!
     
    #67 Death, Sep 4, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2020
  8. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Actually a lot of empires could fit this build. Human history is full of might makes right and extreme brutality. The modern era were warfare and brutality are frown upon is very recent, very unique, and quite odd. We are lucky to live now.

    I kind of think the Mongol empire is a better fit for the combine army but that might just be because I've been playing Ghosts of Tsushima recently so I have the Mongols on my mind. lol
     
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  9. Doppelgganger

    Doppelgganger Well-Known Member

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    It really matter how than evil is?
     
  10. Dragonstriker

    Dragonstriker That wizard came from the moon.

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    No.
    The point is simply that Combined Army and the EI are not chaotic evil, evil for evil’s sake, 1D baddies. Brutal, uncompromising, ruthless, driven; yes. Tragically so, since their goal is actually unacheivable.
    CA are grey, like every faction.
     
  11. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Any faction that genocides entire civilisations because they don't fit in their ineffable master plan is pretty solidly evil to me.

    Even the actions of Ariadna and PanO towards the indigenous aliens on their planets pale compared to "This society has no value so they will be destroyed."
     
    Teleute, Varsovian and AdmiralJCJF like this.
  12. Dragonstriker

    Dragonstriker That wizard came from the moon.

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    Paperclip maximizer logic.
    It’s evil but it’s not evil for evil’s sake.
    All civilizations will contribute to the EI; directly, where they can benefit from service, or indirectly, by clearing the way for others to serve in their place.
     
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  13. Dragonstriker

    Dragonstriker That wizard came from the moon.

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    Dark grey.
     
  14. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Dark enough that Anish Kapoor is considering an exclusivity agreement...
     
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  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Eh, PanO would genocide entire civilizations for profit if it had the capability.
     
  16. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I mean they did, didn't they? The natives of Varuna.
     
  17. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    Well, it really gets hard to define because the EI doesn't necessarily subscribe to the same concepts of morality or even what constitutes a 'life.'

    First off, would the EI offer transcendence to the species under its banner? If so, it suddenly comes off as at least somewhat altruistic in its aims.

    Really, the EI is at its core concerned with a scope of time and existence that is uncountable infinite (we'll set aside its ability or lack thereof to actually reach that goal itself) . The lives of everything else are conversely infintesimally small in comparison, to the point that they may be as insects. As far as the EI is concerned, it may as well be taking in pets and livestock under its shelter, while putting down problem animals. Really, those not following a path towards transcendence are ultimately moving towards their end anyway, and in the face of infinity are not even a blip.

    To the EI, human concepts of morality are likely irrelevant. To humans, the EI itself (although not necessarily its subjugate civilizations) is probably more akin to a force of nature. An antagonistic force to be certain, but not one that can be considered evil.
     
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  18. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    You mean the species which has two playable units in the tabletop wargame, and is a playable race in the RPG?

    Yeah, nothing done to the natives of Varuna compares to the EI annihilating entire civilizations because they weren't useful enough.
     
  19. Varsovian

    Varsovian Well-Known Member

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    My thinking exactly...

    Note: it doesn't mean I'm offended by the CA or something. Just saying that they register as clearly evil to me. Not saying that evil factions can't be interesting or playable (being a Skaven and Death Guard player over at GW's games, I know).

    Hm. What would you consider full-on black, then?
     
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  20. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    As we've discussed to heavy extent during Uprising, the term "genocide" doesn't just mean indiscriminately to kill. The cultural eradication and control Pan-O exerted on Helots is by real world legal definitions, genocide.

    In another real world example, Uyghurs. Not exactly being murdered in the streets or packed into gas chambers, but the systematic destruction of their culture by the CCP is very much recognised as genocide.

    Pan-O found helots to be an exploitable resource, worked on making them docile with pressure suits and easy to exploit. Had Helots not been found to be an exploitable resource they may well have decided to go down the other type of genocide route...

    [​IMG]

    Historically that wouldn't be the first time Australians have taken that route to claim some land.
     
    #80 Triumph, Sep 5, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
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