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So O12 Landed

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by eciu, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    No, Yes, in that order. The KotHS is too much to be paying for what is an expensive combi.


    Agreed here. CB overvalues multi ammo by a lot though, so it wouldn't surprise me if they're only cheating a little bit.

    I think it's more because no one wants to actually have a discussion between the idealists who think everything in the game is fine, and the realists, who are willing to have an actual conversation about problems/perceived problems in the game. Some people just want to bury their head in the sand.

    It's the only important metric at the end of the day. If a faction is winning more than all the others, with factors such as meta and playerbase put aside, it's too strong. There's a reason your chess ELO is based only on your winrate and not your ability to manuever your Queen, for example.
     
  2. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    When you compare in the void two players and their win records it is unimportant really, the variables of luck, ambient level of player skill in their area, local meta and how factions are serviced or not by it, even terrain play such a role that it is hardly a metric.

    Globally, faction wide it gives some metric and has some merit if one can distil the information into serviceable data.
     
  3. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

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    AP weapons are generally +2/3 points over their regular variant, Shock is generally +1. Multi is +4 meaning for Light, the B1 Stun/DA ammo is about +1 point.
    Of course Medium and Heavy multi are a bit different.

    I think these two quotes say a lot about you that you didn't necessarily want to share.
     
    Alphz, Bellyflop, Papa Bey and 3 others like this.
  4. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    Been a while since I used this acronym, but it feels apropos: QFT
     
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  5. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the mission, there are some that it's a really solid pick on.
     
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  6. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    In general, they are a solid pick, but a hard one to play. KotHS are miles away from just point and click. They are nice in the hand of a guy with a twisted brain who loves to play with hidden threats and misbelieves. More a Haqq player thing than a PanO player one where a dreaded shadow is preferred to mind games.
     
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  7. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Hey, I'm a PanO player and I love to play mind games. KotHS is right up my alley :D
     
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  8. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    He is in mine too o/
    But that's something I've noticed after reading for a long time this subforum. PanO players as a whole don't like things too convoluted. Things must get simple and powerful or it is considered as pure bloat.
    While I tend those day to be the Herald of Tzeench with plans into plans to confuse my opponents and have fun with my dirty tricks.
     
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  9. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    This is exactly what I was annoyed about until the last rebalancing. PanO was too straightforward, and high BS wasn't making up for lack of tricks and secondary options. Especially since N3 - back in N2 higher attibutes were tie breakers in FtF rolls, so that high BS of ours was more useful. But I digress :P

    O12 seems to sit between PanO and Aleph (or Nomads, depending on opinions). They're good, but not overly so - even though Lynx, Omega, or Varangians are quite powerful for their cost - but my first thought is that they're unnecessary. They simply don't open any new area for the game in the way other factions did.

    They're able to throw together some pretty good combinations, but I'm reserving my judgement balance-wise for now.
     
  10. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    The huge thing I need to feel is the Riotstopper and the Delta. Those two things are huge question marks for me.
     
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  11. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Delta is awesome, full stop. Each of their loadouts has a use, and Spitfire for 1 SWC is a headscratcher.
     
    emperorsaistone likes this.
  12. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    But that also means there is no way to say the people who are currently making a critique are wrong. Saying there isn't data works both ways
     
  13. WarHound

    WarHound Well-Known Member

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    What's the deal with a Delta being 4-2 MOV while Goldstein is 4-4.

    Do we reckon that's special dispensation for him being a character, or a typo?
     
  14. Werekill

    Werekill Well-Known Member

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    I see that you are a person of culture as well, lol. I love running at minimum 2 TO units.
     
  15. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    It was ridiculous back in N2, when you could disguise KotHS as a Regular Minelayer, and deploy a Cutter masqueraded as a mine...

    Good question
     
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  16. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

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    On a 17.
    Low BS on a Warbands hardly matters as Warbands hardly ever use BS. And with a Light Shotgun you're getting a +6 bonus anyway.
    They are costly compared to other similar troops (Jaguars would be the most direct comparison), but they're good. I believe they have thrown SMGs/Shotguns at them because with just Chains they'd be broken.
     
  17. Werekill

    Werekill Well-Known Member

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    That's disgusting, but I love it so much.

    Honestly even in N3, I feel like people downplay the options that PanO has for mindgames and complexity. Even in NCA. Running Pathfinder + 2-3 Fugazi + Fusi Hacker leads to fun repeater nets after using a coordinated order to spread them, and it becomes juicy bait for when a hacker tries to hit our Fusi then gets slapped by a hidden Hexa KHD.

    (mouthful of a sentence there)

    Then it sounds like they're a good unit. Does having a few great units inherently unbalance a faction? McMurrough is arguably the same strength, just without being a warband.

    I still dislike how O-12 has a Hexa but better (and that it points out how Orcs need buffs), but I feel like we are being too hasty overall with O-12.
     
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  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    @Werekill McMurrough is probably overpowered atm.
     
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  19. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Overpowered is a strong word, but certainly his points cost doesn't really add up compared to most other things built like him.
     
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  20. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Yes, that's what I was referring to. I think I misread the original, I was speaking in terms of factions, not players. I have no desire to participate in a dick measuring contest.

    That I clearly consider myself to be in the realist category? There's no need to hide behind veiled insults, you can speak directly to me. And again, I had misinterpreted the original comment I was quoting, I was speaking in terms of factions, rather than players. I don't care who calls themselves the best players or wants to be, but I think the way that poster reacted after someone else has been openly hostile to them for *literally months* on the forums was quite understandable.

    Based on the Varangian statline it looks like the regular impetuous discount may have been buffed somewhere along the way.
     
    AdmiralJCJF likes this.