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So, Kosmoflot?

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by Spinnaker, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    It just means vanilla Ariadna is going to take the vet kazak over the Kosmodat. +2 arm doesn't make up for the lack mimetism or hackable weakness.
     
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  2. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    Most likely, but vanilla has that problem for some time now. New sectorials and units come out, some extremely similar, and vanilla players will obviously choose the one better optimized. One of the reasons I avoid all that mess and stick to sectorials.
     
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  3. korva

    korva Active Member

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    Is this for real? Wallace not being an LT option has to be either a bug or a massive oversight.

    It'd be real fuckin' weird to give him a rule he literally cannot use until a discontinued sectoral comes out, especially when the only other current Sectoral that can take him has only two subpar LT options.

    I fail to see what role he even has. You basically never took him in vanilla, Inspiring Leadership was his whole deal. Paying points for an ability that literally does nothing is really dumb.
     
  4. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

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    exp ccw in any fireteam. Throw him into, say for instance, the 4 varangians and he's potentially a B4(6 if you really have to push it to extremes) dmg 14 expccw critting on 13+ and auto hitting,12+ saves isn't something you want to deal with...
     
  5. korva

    korva Active Member

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    Not any Fireteam, 1 fireteam. Varganians ain't bad ( I actually really like "we're Glaswegians but better for 3 more points"), but for my core link I want that +3 BS for a good mid/long range gun, it helps even the odds against visual mods we can't overcome with MSV1.

    And how many orders do you think it would take to do that? Granted it depends on terrain, but manuvering 5 guys up the board and surrounding a single model is generally an order intensive sucker's bet. If I need to kill a tag, there's better options like the MSV1 Portable Autocannon on the Kosmosoldat. The Bearpode is faster, far more durable, hits roughly as hard, and its easier to hide 1 model behind smoke than 5 if just shooting it with heavy weapons isn't an option
     
  6. Tongfa

    Tongfa ULTRA INSTINCT UKR

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    Couple of huge changes:

    1. No more 6pt volunteers - they having a vacation till Caledonia comes back online.

    2. Desperado Assault Pistols are now 6 points. Not sure if that is a typo or not, but that is insanely strong.

    3. The UKR is actually fucking yoked. He has MSV1, Shock Immunity AND TACTICAL AWARENESS. Between the Kosmo, Vet Kazak and the UKR, I would take the AP Spitfire UKR every fucking day. He is mega strong. He is also 6-2 Movement. This man is Doom Guy. Seriously consider him.

    4. Gals are 5 points a model, not 6.

    5. My Tankhunter MLs are now 33 points not 29 feelsfuckingbad. I want to give away the AP Mines I don't need them ty. I'm still taking 2 TH MLs though, they're still really good.

    6. The SAS has a new profile and it is bonkers. It is a 21 FO with D-charges and a Chain Rifle. Is this the new Chasseur? I seriously like him, even without the mines.

    7. Speaking of Chasseurs rip their glorious mid-field ascendancy - they've carried so fucking hard but now we might actually need to not just slam down 2 frenchies automatically. Sixth sense is now no longer a delay ARO, but instead a dodge without penalty unless immobilized (-6)/a fire from any direction (which is meaningless as they are camo tokens). They still have a strong place as a LFT/mine/FO problem-solver, but one of their core catch 22 strengths is gone now.

    8. The impetuous change makes running lots of warbands much easier to manage. Something for us to leverage.

    In terms of list-building, not sure how it is for you guys but a lot of my lists have been essentially a mega-strong Group 1, and a 25-30 point Group 2 composed of warbands.

    Improvise, Adapt, Overcome

    Group 1: 9 Regular, 1 Irregular
    Vassily - 40
    UKR with AP Spitfire (fuck TAGs - and HE HAS MSV1 and TACTICAL AWARENESS) - 47, 1SWC
    Spets with HMG - 38, 1.5 SWC
    Tankhunter ML, with ugh...AP Mines, just make me 29 points again - 33, 1.5 SWC
    Tankhunter ML - 33, 1.5 SWC
    Foxtrot Sniper - 20, 0.5 SWC
    Foxtrot FO - 18
    Foxtrot FO - 18
    Assault Pack - 27

    Group 2: 5 irregular, 5 impetuous
    Desperado with ASS pistols - 6
    Gal - 5
    Gal - 5
    Gal - 5
    Gal - 5

    General principle of the list is that Group 2 and the UKR force the opponent to put up AROs otherwise I just sweep them with cheap warbands and a 6-2 MSV1, Tactical Awareness AP Spitfire Machine. If they pop up AROs, I still have my Coordinated Fire strike with 2 MLs and a Foxtrot Sniper. Assault Pack and 2 ever-reliable Foxtrots help me control the midfield.

    It still plays like Ariadna, it still feels like Ariadna. Praise be to the UKR. I cannot wait for this model to carry me.

    (edit: In the above list, you could also drop the Desperado to upgrade both the Foxtrots into SAS FOs. I really like that idea. I think camo chain rifles and AP close combat threat will always be strong. You still have mines from the...Tankhunter MLs).
     
    #346 Tongfa, Sep 26, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
  7. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

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    I swear it said any fireteam(like his CHA version) when I looked... Even so, with varangians he's a BS 16 b4 dam 14 T2 rifle. He's more than capable of ripping apart an enemy fireteam in a midrange gunfight, and cheap enough that you can also have a kosmosoldat or a couple of bearpodes for killing TAGs. You'll only ever get the last turn out of inspiring leadership, true, but that's not a big deal next to his n3 CHA version.

    There's no reason in game ballance terms that he shouldn't be given an LT opinion in vanilla when Joan gets it, but their is a fluff reason: nobody outside of Caledonia(and even then I imagine it's a minority) really trusts the aleph-born unholy simulacrum of a rebel/traitor...

    He is suffering from the problem that USARF swims in though, for the same points you can have Cadin who's slightly less effective with his rifle, but arguably more efficient with the dam 15 AP T2 ccw hitting on 26 or 29. In fact, not only does Cadin fill the same roll in game, he's also not quite 100% trusted in the fluff as well...

    The more I look at it, ariadna is getting a bit homogeneous outside of the order spam that isn't allowed any more...

    It's possible that in ITS 11 every list from every sectorial will contain a fireteam lead by a character, a big shooty boy, and a dog/bear warrior who gets up front and destroys things, and only generic Ariadna will contain any variety... There are still options outside of that, but it's the most obvious and immediately effective option presented...
     
    #347 cazboab, Sep 26, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2020
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  8. Panzerschwein

    Panzerschwein Well-Known Member

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    I hope that many are bugs. only 2 Leutnant units? that can't be right (Wallace). Kosmosoldat is not what CB presented.

    At the moment I made a first N4 List:

    gTIADEtvc21vZmxvdCBMMYEsAgEHAYEFAQMAAoEFAQUAA4EFAQUABIXyAAEABYEBAgEABoEBAQMAB4ECAAEAAgQBhfEBAgAChIABAQADgQkBAgAEMgEBAA==
     
  9. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Maybe check the number and quality of Irregular troopers in PanO compared to Ariadna, Inspiring Leadership would be much much more powerful in VanAriadna, rediculously so!
     
  10. FreezeZ

    FreezeZ Well-Known Member

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    Thats rather elite take on Kosmoflot. Right now I am thinking about something more conservative:
    gTIJa29zbW9mbG90CjMwMCBtaXJhZ2WBLAIBCQCF8AEBAACF7gEKAACA8wEBAACF7gEGAACF7gEBAACF7wEDAACBBwECAACA7QEEAACF8gABAAIFAIW1AQEAAIW1AQEAAIXxAQEAAIXvAQQAAIW1AQEA

    or

    gTIJa29zbW9mbG90CjMwMCBtaXJhZ2WBLAIBCQCF8AEBAACF7gEKAACA8wEBAACF7gEGAACF7gEBAACF7wEDAACBAgABAACBBwECAACA7QEEAAIEAIW1AQEAAIW1AQEAAIXxAQEAAIXuAQEA
     
  11. MRPYM

    MRPYM Member

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    Here is my 1st try at kosmoflot.

    gTIABjFzdFRyeYEsAgEJAYXwAQEAAoRwAQcAA4RwAQcABIRwAQMABYRwAQIABoDtAQQAB4DtAQQACISAAQEACYXvAQMAAgYBgQEBAQACgQEBAQADhbUBAQAEhbUBAQAFhe4BCgAGgQECAQA=

    The fronty core is stay back and shoot stuff. The pavel and two sas are my objectives takers and my cc guys when facing guys I cannot out shoot with fronties. The two varangians are smokers who provide cover when needed. Everyring else is cheeeaders.

    Is the swc number okay for 300 pts?
     
  12. Kreslack

    Kreslack Unknown Ranger lead the way!

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    but the 15 unit cap still puts a pretty big dampener on taking all those cheap units. It's not like we'd have some TAG to power with it.
     
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  13. Duringhzar

    Duringhzar Active Member

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    Here I have the first lists that I have created by Kosmoflot inspired by your first lists, I started doing my thing

    I have tried many to maximize orders like the Haris of the Unknown Ranger with the Scot Guard NCO on the other hand the Haris of Varengian (or even core if you need only blood) seems brutal to me, I would almost use only Rokot's defensively since it could Get one or two points when taking out the 8-point rokot

    gTIADVByb3RvIDEga29zbW+BLAIBCQEyAQEAAoXuAQYAA4XuAQoABIXuAQEABYXwAQQABoXwAQQAB4ECAAEACIEHAQIACYW1AQEAAgYBgQECAQACgQEBAQADgQEBAQAEhbUBAQAFhbUBAQAGgwkBAwA=

    gTIAB0tvc21vIDKBLAIBCQGBAgABAAKF7wEBAAOFtQEBAASFtQEBAAWBAwEBAAaBBwECAAeBAQIBAAiBAQEBAAmBAQEBAAIGAYD4AQEAAoMJAQMAA4XuAQEABIXuAQEABYXuAQEABoXuAQoA

    gTIADU11Y2hvIHd1bHZlciCBLAIBCQGF7wEBAAKF8AEBAAOF9QEBAASF7gEEAAWF7gEEAAaF7gEHAAeF7gEKAAgyAQEACYW1AQEAAgUBgPgBAQACgQcBAgADgwkBAwAEgQUBBQAFgQUBBQA=
     
  14. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

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    Or 5 tags, including one that's got mimitism, and probably another one coming back in the November update...

    That's pretty much the case all over the board with Ariadna in N4, here are your very cheap decent units, that you can't leverage optimally with the trooper limit, but we haven't given you any really bad ass unit to power the cheap orders into, so pick 15 good but not great guys and hope your camo, one or two extra AROs from dogged and tessium ammo types is enough.
     
  15. SpectralOwl

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    At least at first glance, the way I'd handle my list building using a cheaper order battery would be to lean on Airborne Deployment as an addition to a more standard list. Pretty much all Ariadnan AD is terrifying top-tier stuff now, with only Airborne Rangers even approaching "average", so it should be quite easy to give your opponent a bloody nose on Turn 1 before they can deplete your Camo line enough to really clean out your board. Not to mention that the enemy will always have to respect the possibility of Van Zant or especially Mirage-5 on deployment even if you aren't bringing them, because those guys are easily strong enough to wipe a DZ by themselves if the enemy are badly deployed. The math on Ariadnan attacks starts looking better once you factor in the fact that half the enemy will, by necessity, be facing backwards or guarding flanks.
     
  16. Hansolo

    Hansolo Well-Known Member

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    Since we're sharing ideas there's my first try:

    https://infinitytheuniverse.com/arm...FAACF8QEBAACEcAEFAACF8QECAACA7QEEAACA7QEEAA==

    I prefer 3-man fireteams instead of 4 or 5. And I love big guns and big armor.
    Volkolak rolls with Scots to kill and click objectives. Kosmosoldat HMG with Frontovik does the same on the other flank. AC Kosmosoldat for ARO duty, SAS for midfield harrasment/objective grab. Zenit for CoC, turn 3 objective grab and ocasional shot.
     
  17. cazboab

    cazboab Definitely not Cazboaz.

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    I'm not sure if an entire faction- not just a sectorial - can survive around the threat of Duroc, the spetznaz, and Van Zant.

    Kosmoflot is the only Ariadnan sectorial given any sort of love, TAK and USARF got ignored except for the overlapping units.

    We'll see what November brings with CHA and MRRF, but I don't actually expect a lot from that, eg the Kosmosoldat is what the Mormaers should have been, but they can't make the Mormaers the same, so I expect them to be a little bit crappier to balance the haris...
     
  18. SpectralOwl

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    From what I recall TAK worked quite well between 10-15 orders thanks to its highly-skilled units, but I can agree USARF got screwed over quite badly by the edition changeover and should have received more attention since its competence is weighted so heavily in favour of its cheapest units. I expect CHA and MRRF might actually be quite strong with some extra time invested into them thanks to Fireteam options (especially if Loup Garou get a new Grenade Launcher), but they likely won't bring much more to Vanilla than what's already there.

    As for a whole faction surviving around the threat of one or two units? I got into Infinity as a Yu Jing player just before Uprising. The Oniwaban was exactly that for the Yu Jing of the time; you had total garbage for ARO and often the only thing stopping the enemy from alpha striking you into oblivion was the very real chance that you could read their deployment and put an insta-kill sword right on top of their most critical piece as it moved into position, or exploit the hole it left in your own turn. After Uprising basically the only thing that worked really well was Order spam with Kuang Shi since they traded well on the defensive. It was crappy enough it drove me to switch factions to MRRF so I could finally have a half-decent defense.
     
  19. Duringhzar

    Duringhzar Active Member

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    USARF has received an important blow without a doubt, it seems that we will have to put more the point of view in the Maraurder or the Minutmen (Especially because the Maraurder Sniper has burst 4 in active turn haha) However, they have barely touched up the fireteam to make it possible to have better mixes of cheap troops-expensive troops

    Another thing that makes me feel weird is the CD Shock attack given to the Sniper Grunt. The +1 damage is good but ... why cd shock a weapon that is already shock? because if that Grunt must use the gun, something was wrong

    Changing the subject to Kosmoflot ... It's hard for me to square the Kosmosoldat, at least the current one, the one with AP HMG +1 burst was ... better, I understand that its AP HMG damage 16 is scary and that it has a great armor but ... I dont know
     
  20. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    As already mentioned, it's a typo and is an AP Sniper Rifle.
     
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