I read all your posts, guys, really interesting interpretations. And if I'am not wrong in my conclusions... All we "pano players" (in soul or heart) are pretty much optimistics about what brings N4 for Pano. And too, most of us love Acontecimento, so Corvus, please give SAA a little love here ;), when I think too mucho should change in N4 to provoke the need of too many changes in Acontecimento. XD Without having all the changes at view, it looks like Pano will fit really well, how not if Pano don't bright exactly to deploy a lot of troups. Still we will see what happens with other factions. While I think NCA, SAA , VIRD, Winterforce and Vainilla will not have any issues in N4, I'am reluctand about MO. Of course, less enemy orders only benefits MO, but against some armies now in equal size MO is in really disadvantage. For example, as individuals, every knight is far better as any HI of Invencible, but mixed, as an army, the order generation in Invencible allow the "yujing" sectorial to be better. Of course this is only a N3 personal perception, because we don't know how the changes over the HI. While I'am not a hard MO player, I would want play sometimes with it and to have fun, not to be destroyed.
I think it will be better in N4. I played a little in TTS in this "pandemic-times", and I had to change my mind. Yes, of course, we wil miss the supresives options we have in other Pano savours, but I think this is the intention: other options. If we think about less cheap people with chains running at the table, our really expensive guys with DDO automatically gain a "new survival level". Probably if someone will face Winterforce in an individual match could prepare against it without problems, but if you go into a tournament... that DDO saturation could make the difference. Specially in N4 where it will be only 15 guys in the other side. ;)
Of course if CB mishandles faction balance hard, it will be a shame. But if the 15 unit cap means that now the optimum is in between 10-15 units for -almost- every army, instead of 13-18 that it seems to be now, that will only be for the better. Let's wait and see... remember grass is always greener on the other side, also. As for MO, without having the big picture of N4, I think it could do just by a few "minor" changes. These would be my small "to do" list: - replace OS spitfire by HMG, recost (+2pt?) - allow OS hacker in links. - Add BF CoC profile, non linkable(Maybe just MSV2+MR) - New teutonic standard profile with MOV6-4, BTS3, forward deployment 4" instead of jungle terrain, EXP CCW instead of panzerfaust, same price range. Options with stun/ nimbus / we (and hoping for reworked Assault. - Allow crusade link with less than 4 HKs.
Why would any army take anything less than exactly 15 Orders (rules granting additional Orders notwithstanding)? Are there really profiles that are expensive enough to limit you to being able to fill, say, 12 slots, while at the same time being worth losing 3 Orders? Per previous experience, one would rather diminish one of the other troopers and get in 3 cheap warbands or other cheerleader chaff. Orders are even more valuable now that we can't have 18 of them.
I don't have a complete enough picture of what changes N4 will bring yet, so I'm not making any decisions until I see the rules myself. When I see the rules, I will make a determination. I will either like it enough to continue playing, or I will not, and I will move onto something shinier. The models will remain as they are. Usable in other CP genre games regardless. I've never hated a game enough to sell all of my models after I stopped playing it (I've loathed one so much I GAVE AWAY all the models I had for it, though.) How much I like it determines how often I will play it or want to play it.
For the same reason that we field 14-15 orders, instead of 18-20 of them. Increased capabilities of more elite units make every spent order more effective, while making it harder to remove your pieces from the board. Until now the general consensus was that it's not enough to offset the advantages of increased order count, but the change to crits alone should make the balance much better.
Eh. Feeling mixed... but I think I’ll use the VIRD starter set I’ve ordered a few weeks ago (via my local hobbyist store) as proxies for other PanO’s units... or adapt after getting used to see how VIRD works in N4...
It depends on the purposes of your combat groups. I've written several lists now as part of N3.5 experiments that run a 4 troop secondary combat group, because the group only needs to do a few things (e.g. lay pitchers, heal, fire guided missiles or fling guided warbands) and I've consolidated the points into a stronger primary group. On a similar note back in the White Noise Easter TTS event, the player that ran a Haqq list all the way to the finals ran a secondary combat group of five models but which included a warcor. In general I'd expect maximising your troop slots to be the norm, but if N4 is anything like N3 there'll still be ample lists that don't need the 15th trooper.
Take this for example: Spoiler Invincible Army ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 9 1 DĀOYĪNG Lieutenant L2 Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21) TAI SHENG (Chain of Command) Mk12, Chain-colt, Stun Grenades / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0 | 49) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Duo, Tactical Awareness) HMG / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (1.5 | 38) ZÚYŎNG (Fireteam: Haris, Tactical Awareness) Combi Rifle + 1 TinBot B (Deflector L2) / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0.5 | 34) SHÀNG JÍ (Tactical Awareness) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 42) HǍIDÀO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26) LÉI GŌNG Shock Marksman Rifle, Nanopulser, Blitzen / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34) ZHĒNCHÁ (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D.E.P., Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 34) Zhanshi YĪSHĒNG Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) YÁOZĂO Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) WARCOR (Sixth Sense L1) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 4 SWC | 299 Points Open in Infinity Army That's effectively 14-15 orders on the fireteam with only 10 models on the table. You could stretch this to a second CG, but then you open yourself to strategic command token use and lose additional TacAware orders on your pain train to free up points.
Here's mine: - Eliminate Order Sergeants and replace them with Fusiliers - Replace Auxbot Order Sergeants with Auxilia - Replace TO Order Sergeants with any other skirmisher, or make a new unit with TO Order Sergeants stats and give it a new name. Yeah I really hate everything about Order Sergeants.
I, for one, am feeling extremely optimistic about N4. Tac window? Great! I don't know about the crazy, order-heavy international meta, but i've always struggled to fit 15 troops in a list when playing PanO, let alone 18 of the mofos. Most of my lists have like 13 duders. General price decrease amd passive buffs to HIs and TAGs? Awwww yis! That's amazing! I love our HI's aesthetics and would love to bring more of them more regularly. My ORCs will certainly be happy about this. Hacking being streamlined and made more effective? Great! Maybe our poor, maligned hackers will actually be able to do useful things like ARO spotlight. Relatedly, the Peacemaker may find that it is no longer quite as maligned a little brother to the bulleteer as previously. MI being cheaper and gaining the ability to ambulate at a normal pace? Yes! I want every excuse possible to put my Neoterran Bolts on the table. They look badass and deserve to some playtime. Overall, yeah, I'm very happy. Weirdly I'm most excited to see N4 NCA, so I'll have to wait a bit for that. It'll be nice to see N4 Winterfor as well. Since they were designed for it I imagine the biggest issues they had as a sectorial in N3 will be alleviated under the N4 ruleset.
Eh, I literally said "rules giving additional orders notwithstanding". I know some factions can pull insane additional Orders out of their ass. That should stop being a thing if TW is the default in N4.
English is not my fist language, so you'll have to excuse if I misunderstood, but to me that read like "Why would anyone do this even if they have additional orders available."
Oh, apologies - I meant "as long as we don't assume you play one of the factions that can add five orders to ten slots for free" :)
Hey I'd buy this without a doubt, specially if Fusiliers and Auxilias keep their Lt options or gain CoC. But I don't see OS going away anytime soon...
I often bring the second combat group as a squishy soft ARO shield around a very elite first combat group. Stuff like a Helot, Warcor and one or two Fugazis go into that one. I generally don't want to fill it up too much because I don't want to drain efficiency from the group that is actually doing stuff. If I can get it to 5 without compromising group 1, that is ok, but generally not a goal in itself. These units need to advance in my active turn to find better ARO positions and perform risk free discovers, i.e. running into mines, so sometimes putting a striker or specialist in there is just inefficient use of points in my way of using the list.
Taking only 14 orders potentially leaves your opponent paranoid about Hidden Deployment or AD troopers too.