Give us a hacker with a repeater Auxbot... I don't want to have rely on Aleph for innovation using our own tech. Sensor auxbot would be cool too.
This discussion is why vanilla factions will leave the game. If not at the tail of N3, then as part of N4. Also, I'm convinced there is no points formula and there never was. They have probably come to some very similar conclusions for costing across factions, but the exceptions are far too numerous for any serious person to think they adhere stricty to a formula. ...and thats the way it ought to be. I hope they can get over the idea that the printed profiles are somehow permanent and start tinkering. If they're smart, each tweak will come with a story blurb.
Mo honestly deserves the eclipse on a reliable profile. Like the teuton , a bs 10 auxbot is not what a sectorial that consistently needs to shoot out of their dz needs.
There pretty clearly is. The reduction in cost that irregular and Impetuousness give is consistent across all factions. CBs stance on not allowing people to talk about it is the only reason that this isn't accepted across the board. I highly doubt this. PanO and Vanilla YJ are probably the only vanilla factions weaker than their sectorials at this point, and given how much of a debaucle JSA-split was, I doubt CB will try that again.
That would be a suicide. There are soooo many peeps playing vanilla and by taking it away from them would be catasthrophic. Plus the diversity vanilla brings to the game is healthy to the game.
You're saying that as if GW's releases weren't a finest example of Mach 3 power creep not long ago. "Non-aligned" doesn't sound independent enough? And NA2 are quite independent one from another; while three of them are merc companies, JSA is nothing like the rest and feels fine where it is. Well, SoF is a good benchmark for what you're suggesting, so we aren't even limited to theorycrafting here too much.
Is Vanilla holding the game back? Creating new sectorials or adding profiles should offer some freedom. I have to imagine that freedom is a bit limited atm because these additions are expected to be part of Vanilla. AVA1 for a great profile is hardly a limitation if we have a million great AVA1 profiles to choose from in Vanilla. I wouldn't delete Vanilla but instead look at it as as something that needs balancing similar to Sectorials. The first thing is removing this idea that all profiles should belong there. The basic premise of course being that compared to a Sectorial, Vanilla trades Fireteams for unit options. However, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Vanilla could allow DUOs without EVOs and need an EVO for Haris instead. Sectorials will have better Fireteams and unique troopers. Vanilla will have weaker/no Fireteams and fewer unique, but overall more, troop options. Balance as needed. If CB adds many more Sectorials in the future, maybe having 2 Vanilla factions could work. Or possibly group AVA up for several profiles instead. Put a bunch of the big hitters together and force us to choose one or two for example.
Another possibility would be to start using Troop Classification in vanilla as a further restriction. "Line Troops: AVA X. Veteran Troops: AVA Y. Elite Troops: AVA Z" and so on.
Ariadna has that for dog-warrior-style units in Vanilla, and used to have it for the various core LI militia troops as well. It's not without precedent.
On points formula: there is admittedly strong empirical evidence that there is a formula. Showing a thing among many is correct across the board and claiming that means you're right is the definition of selection bias. CB may use a formula, but they have barely, and never needed to, stick to it to make this game. It's really that simple. Any formula, if it exists, is neither necessary, nor evidently adhered to. On vanilla-drop being suicide: Lol the only suicide I've seen is various forumites' ability to be civil. The jsa/yj change was a big - and important - move. YJ now has a mile-wide design space gap to squeeze in white banner and such. CB is doing just fine, and their game is still getting better. Hold on to your butts, guys: If you think JSA and Tunguska was bonkers, then you're ignoring how involved those changes were. JSA came with an entire book. They are not afraid to shake this game up, so get ready to be excited for the story, or miss out on something fun. The vanilla problem is that it holds back the design space for sectorials. AVA 1 of 6 different infiltrating camo troops os still a lot of infiltrating camo troops. People wonder about SWC on OS infiltrators, and i genuinely can't understand why.. isn't it obvious what they're telling the player? When all the Sectorials are finished there won't be a need for vanilla, and so a need for OS SWC tax drops. Especially when vanilla is pretty much the main reason a new Sectorial takes forever to make. Look how quickly NA2 can pump out new factions when they don't have to share anything. Sure, they've been working on it for a while, but that was a LOT of stuff added to the game in very little time comparatively and it's because they didn't have to balance everything with one big NA2 megafaction that literally gets everything. NA2 is the model for how the other factions will go.
I agree about the giant hole to fill in YJ. It's exciting to imagine what might be added as filler. It's a great move from CB and something they can repeat in other forms to open the game up. I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say about the point formula. I certainly believe there is one. But the thing is, it doesn't restrict the development of new profiles to any relevant degree. One work around giving complete freedom is adding new skills or equipment at whatever value CB wants. They can lower useless stats, make troopers you spend orders on irregular, add frenzy, etc, to free up the points needed to make some real beasts. So the formula i believe they use is one that doesn't actually restrict them in any meaningful way.
I think Yu Jing is going to get more White Banner/Korean units to fill the gap that the Japanese left. Which in lore makes sense to me due to the fact that Korea seems to be more agreeable with the Jade Emperor than the Japanese. That and I think some of the Japanese kind of did not fit Yu Jing's style or stepped on some units toes. (then again, I am a PanO player who just wants to try Yu Jing as well so no h8 pls).
Im saying whether a firmula exists or not is irrelevant because they dont have to adhere to it. If there is: they ignore it enough that it's just a reference. If it doesn't exist: playtesting comes to similar conclusions over and over again. Thus: what difference does it make? Further: empirically derived formulae are not repeatably accurate in all cases, so I put it to anyone who insists there's a formula: prove it. They haven't yet.
I have high hopes for the rest of YJ. I was just as excited for JSA but let down by the mini's. I hope the same doesn't happen with YJs new sectorials. Seems like we agree on how relevant the formula is then, just not on whether they actually have one :P
I think you don't realize how condescending it is to tell people something that took away the minis they paid money for and made a mockery of the faction they invested money and effort is "fun" because you say so. Also, I find it cute when people say they are excited for the great things coming for YJ when there is absolutely nothing suggesting that, and much more suggesting YJ is only the moustache-twirling villain that's there so other factions can be good. Seriously, where have you seen any clue about CB caring about Yu Jing? More like the opposite Then again I forgot this is the PanO forum.
Here are some basic facts: your models still work in the game for all casual and competetive purposes. 0% of the game's factions were removed by this. YJ will be added to since it now has space to do so. This game will not stop changing. Now that's condescending.
This is going to be my only reply to this^ because this subject doesn't belong here. I most certainly didn't say or imply it is fun for others. I enjoyed it, that's my opinion and how I feel about it. I can see it's a sensitive topic for you, but don't read what isn't there. Games evolve. They have new editions. MMOs have patches. Things we players pay money for change. Not everyone likes change. The world has made that abundantly clear. But without change these games can stagnate. Nothing is stopping players using pre Uprising rules either. I understand players FEEL like they have no choice, but they do. That choice... if they want to be part of the future of Infinity they need to embrace its evolution. The alternative is games being released and not supported with future content. Games like that exist and Infinity isn't one of them. I understand certain things can be added without changing what you paid for but that only comes with limitations. I prefer games being free to evolve with no limitations. You're opinion, and possibly correct, is CB might not touch YJ. I don't share that opinion.
