The classic question. I declare BS attack with a smoke grenade. Do I: 1. Point to a spot on the table, then place the template centered on that spot, hoping that it covers the area that I wanted it to cover? or; 2. Place the template on the table, adjusting it to cover the area I want it to cover? In N3, I had a vague recollection that @ijw or CB had definitively answer this as (1). But I can't find that anymore - all I've found is this thread which is unanswered: https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threads/placing-a-smoke-template.34718/page-3 Also since I can't find that N3 ruling if it exists, I can't check whether there are any wording changes that would change the result in N4. So, hopefully we can get a definitive answer in N4, since it comes up frequently in games and has important consequences, unlike a lot of the obscure edge cases we like to discuss here :-)
It's still an Impact Template Weapon, just non-lethal. Impact Template Weapons require placing the template on the table to see what's affected. Special Case: Targetless (Smoke) means only that you do not need to center it on an enemy model's base, it can be any point on the table.
To expand on what @Nuada Airgetlam just posted, the second bullet in requirements is key. you still designate a target ( in the case of smoke a spot on the ground often times) and use that to place the template. Short Answer, it works like N3, I think.
The target is a "reference to" placing the template, whether it's a model or an "area" so I think it's option 1. I think "area" is a bad choice of word though, it should be a point. P.S. I prefer it the other way.
Well, not a point, but an area covered by the Blast Focus. Just like the Blast Focus should've covered enemy target's base. It's not a point, a point is single-dimensional. This is an area.
Are we certain how it worked in N3? Despite my vague recollection, I couldn't find a definitive answer. Just the thread I linked which didn't reach a conclusion. Do you have a link to the ruling? Then we'd be able to see whether it was based on wording that is the same in N4.
If you dig through the links in the linked thread, you come to @HellLois's statement on the matter: #12 When you declare an attack, you have to select a target, so when you place the center of the Circular Template over the center of the main target's base. Next, you check which troops are affected by the template, to daclare their AROs. The smoke is a special case of the circular impact templates, you dont have to declare an enemy as a target; you can target a spot on the game table. With the speculative fire, you must designate a target and then the template is placed, but this does not have to be focused on the target. So, once again, the term "targetless" is misleading the same way "smoke special dodge" is. :-) "targetless" doesn't mean the attack has no target, it means that the attack doesn't have to target a trooper.
That's probably the one I was thinking of. So it's not as clear as I'd hoped :-( I'm like 65% sure HellLois meant that you commit to a point on the table, then place the template. Similaly, I feel like around 65% of my opponents play it that way, and the rest play that you place the template first. Would still really like to start off N4 with a 100% clear answer. I plan to shoot a whole lotta smoke in N4. @ijw are you able to assist?
Genuine question - where's the unclear bit you are seeing? This looks a lot like bullet #2 in the rule to me. Pick a target (spot on the ground in this case), then center the template around that. Is there a way you're reading it that is different? Assuming that your 65% is right, how would you like the rule to be written better for clarity?
So, I dug a couple more levels down those threads, Inception style. The bottom level English thread is this one https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threa...target-or-must-you-only-target-a-point.23498/ which itself refers to a post by Helllois in the Spanish forums. That post, after someone ran it through google translate, is clear. I think I wasn't sure if it was clear because I was remembering Helllois' second post, in English, and forgetting his first post, in Spanish, which is the one that definitively solved the question in N3 (despite 35% of players continuing to play it the other way). So now that I know the N3 rule for sure, I checked and it looks like the wording hasn't changed. In N3 the rules say that the smoke targets an "area" of the table. N4 uses the same word. I had hoped that the "area" referred to the full area covered by the template, hence you could declare your target by placing the template. But we know that that interpretation can't be correct, because in N3 "area" was ruled to refer to a point, and N4 uses the same language. Solved, unfortunately :-(
^ I thought the consensus was NOT to use N3 solutions, because involves carrying a lot of baggage over from that edition but rather to use N4 as an opportunity to reset to a blank slate so that there was an opportunity to revisit interpretations that made sense at the time but didn't result in gameplay outcomes that are desired in N4. Tl;dr: this needs to be answered again.
What clarification is needed, in your view? The second bullet reads plainly to me. choose main target (spot on the table), place template.
If we're not carrying over N3 solutions, so we assume that Helllois' ruling no longer applies and look only at the current wording: where are you finding that bullet point? I'm not seeing anywhere in the rules referring to targeting a "spot on the table." The only bullet I've found is page 50, first sub-bullet under "Impact template, special cases" which reads "the target can be an area on the game table." To me, the most likely meaning of "area" is the area covered by the smoke template. So you place the whole template because the whole template is the target area. But that reading isn't possible if Helllois' N3 ruling still applies. Gonna agree with @inane.imp that I would like to see this answered again in N4. But unless we get a re-answer, I have to conclude that the N3 ruling still applies, otherwise we just won't know which way to play it.
Thank you @ijw . So, for 100% clarity, is that a confirmation that option 1 in the OP is correct in N4?
I hadn't gone back and checked the rule: I was disagreeing with the method of argument (it was ruled like this in N3 so we can assume it works the same way in N4) rather than the content. Reviewing the content, I agree with you: it doesn't really need clarification, the N4 text stands on it's own.
