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When throwing smoke can you use the template to define the target, or must you only target a point?

Discussion in 'Solved Rule Questions' started by Spleen, Jun 14, 2018.

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  1. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

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    There is a thread over on the spanish section of the forums marked as solved and posted in by HellLois wherein he appears to clarify that you must nominate only the central point of markers before pulling out your circular template when throwing smoke:

    https://forum.corvusbelli.com/threa...ion-de-punto-y-colocacion-de-plantilla.23316/

    Google translate tells me this means:

    This is:
    - I throw smoke "here." Pointing to the point on the table where the smoke will be released
    - I put the circular template centered on the declared point and we see what area it covers and who the template affects.
    - possible AROs are declared

    Can someone more adept with spanish confirm if my reading of this is correct and we are meant to just be nominating the central point and not using the template as a guide for nominating our smoke targets?
     
  2. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Step 1: mark a point on the table.
    Step 2: Measure from the model to the point.
    Step 3: Place smoke template.
    Step 4: check models affected by the template and ARO/Order interactions.

    The spanish example is written on the assumption that the smoke-thrower is on its Active Turn (thus the mention of seeing "who does it affect", for example). If you want to make a Special Dodge as ARO, a more generic way to say the things is needed.
    I have also added the "measure to the point" before placing the template for operativity, since it's easier to do so without moving anything or in case of places where the whole template won't fit (thus the reason for using 25mm flat markers and an acrylic, transparent template, at least on its center! ^^)
     
  3. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you need to pick the center point and judge the radius to hit/cover the troopers you want. I know plenty of people who just move the template around on the table before choosing their point of impact.

    Would this apply in a similar way to chain rifles etc? Or do we get to play with those until hitting everyone we want?
     
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Speculative Shot is also interesting with it's requirement to have main target inside radius.
     
  5. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Judging from the guts check and smoke thread @ijw is one of those people. Personally I do the same.
     
    Koval likes this.
  6. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Idle has you covered for resolving that. I'm not saying it's good, but it's a gameplay problem not a rules problem.

    I don't see how you could extend this to DTWs though.

    Even teardrop ITWs are difficult. You determine the precise trajectory only at resolution, and if trying to hit secondary targets there's usually a discussion about what is actually possible.

    Also White Noise is a special snowflake. It has no centre point, it's just the template.
     
  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Actually there's no way the order described above is correct.

    It should be:
    Step 1: mark point on table
    Step 2: place smoke template
    Step 3: check models affected by the template to determine ARO
    Step 4: opponent declares AROs
    Step 5: Measure from the model to the point
    Step 6: Resolve ARO/Order interactions

    The way most people (admittedly based on a limited response) appear to play it is:
    Step 1: place smoke template
    Step 2: check models affected by the template to determine ARO
    Step 3: if required (by terrain or simplicity of play) mark the centre point of the template
    Step 4: opponent declares AROs
    Step 5: Measure from the model to the centrepoint
    Step 6: Resolve ARO/Order interactions
     
  8. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

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    This is vague enough that I might be misinterpreting what you are saying but, I think you're wrong.

    The precise trajectory is determined at the instant of declaring the attack:
    • Place the Template down when you declare the Attack to determine who is affected by that Attack, as that might influence the possible second Short Skill and AROs.
    emphasis not mine.
     
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  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I derped. Although you do determine the point you fire from at resolution normally, which is what confused me.
     
  10. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Mine is based on experience: if you remove the finger you used to mark, you won't be placing the template at exactly that place... thus why I prefer to measure BEFORE I move the finger. It has never been really relevant, since at least in my case my smoke grenades tend to land between the legs of the model and 16-18cm away (I always try to aim for the +20 you have in what is effectively your ZoC).

    Also, I place a 25mm (same size as a model's base) on the approximate place I pointed with the finger, and then place the smoke template. That way, as I see it, there is no way to "move around" the smoke template and affect other models in thight spots. I just want to get as much of a "bllind result" as I can, though.

    And regarding the measure, well, I suppose it's the "fault" of me using one of those acrylic movement rulers, since it's 20cm on its longest side, checking for ZoC or first band of range is as fast as placing it from one base to target, we don't really know the exact distance, but we know if it's inside or not the +3 range band for throwing smoke grenades.
     
  11. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    You're literally not allowed to measure the distance to that point at Declaration. You are only allowed to measure at Resolution.

    But the full template must be placed at Declaration (not least to check if it triggers AROs).
     
  12. HellLois

    HellLois What the Hell...Lois?
    CB Staff

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    When you declare an attack, you have to select a target, so when you place the center of the Circular Template over the center of the main target's base. Next, you check which troops are affected by the template, to daclare their AROs.
    The smoke is a special case of the circular impact templates, you dont have to declare an enemy as a target; you can target a spot on the game table.

    With the speculative fire, you must designate a target and then the template is placed, but this does not have to be focused on the target.
     
    Commoner1, Teslarod and Hachiman Taro like this.
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