That's the point; in any other faction Teutons wouldn't compete for space with other, better thought-out knights. Of course we use other units. It's just sad to see a lost opportunity to do something useful and interesting.
Because stats are less efficient and more costly than skills ? Because "all rounders" are actually less usuable than focused units ? Because 30+ odd pts unit has no mean of getting into CC and actually very limited number or targets ?
This isn't entirely true, a well thought out unit might want to do that. Still, it'd be better to make Teutons into full-fledged CQB HI warband. Maybe, maybe not. But you're right that there'd still be some competition.
Yes they can safely go into CC with Avatar, but they have no chance of killing it in any shape of reliability (or even stall it). Well we just got really big influx of some strong CC units in many factions. MO just found itself in really different world. Anyone less capapble will just keep their distance and you wont be able to actually enforce CC on MO terms, while other factions will just send their dedicated CC units (MA3, NBW) and smash you in CC. Cosplayers in powerarmors...
That's why I'd like to see Eclipse Grenades on them. Eclipse, SMG, HFT, EXP CCW on all profiles, BS 13. Now they have a purpose in life.
I was playing MO like 6 years ago and it still wasn't the best CC faction... MO has like swords and auxiliary CC abilities, but they're BS 13-14 with spitfires for a reason. Like you're all nostalgic for a faction that didn't really exist. It's been Daturazi, Ninjas, Speculo as the best CC guys for a long long time.
We arent asking to be jsa, but are asking that some models that pay heavily for cc capabilities be allowed to use em. All bs 13 and 14 with no modifiers is cute and all , but some of these other factions with cc monster still walk around with bs 13 + mimetism or bs 12+ odd . Which is better in a firefight than bs 14 against 90% of profiles in the game. So with that in consideration perhaps it isnt obscene to ask teutons get eclipse grenades and at least DA ccw on all their profiles.
Also, we were having this discussion at least few times. MO isn't a CC faction, it's a CQB faction. High CC and some MA is bloat, but one that comes in handy once in a while (and MA-derived Stealth is quite useful for our hackable knights). This doesn't mean that Teutons couldn't be more CC-specialized. It'd give us a wider array of options, and would stop them compete for the same role with other knights, is all.
Let's be real please. CQB isn't really something that works in this game unless you have some kind of mods like Mimetism or the like. The closer in you get, the more you're going to have issues if you don't have them. It's one of the big issues with PanO, in general, that has been talked about over and over and over and over and over again that their "bonus Ballistic Skill" means nothing against modifiers.
And that Swiss HMG, from Hidden deployment, has a 44% chance of putting Tarik unconscious. Swiss Guard - HMG vs. Tarik Mansuri - Spitfire (Swiss coming out of Hidden Deployment with Surprise Shot, both in cover, range is 24-32 to be most in Swiss favor) Active Player 79.55% Swiss Guard inflicts 1 or more wounds on Tarik Mansuri (1 W) 44.04% Swiss Guard inflicts 2 or more wounds on Tarik Mansuri (Unconscious) 13.42% Swiss Guard inflicts 3 or more wounds on Tarik Mansuri (Dead) Failures 16.37% Neither player succeeds Reactive Player 4.07% Tarik Mansuri inflicts 1 or more wounds on Swiss Guard (1 W) If Tarik survives, he's back to a 41% chance of winning the next firefight. Well, you're not NOW. Needs to be a single syllable for "fire in the _____" The first thing that comes to my mind is actually "fire in the hole!"
That seems pretty good, considering the cost of both models. I’m happy to have the Swiss for the exchange.
The numbers did surprise me, but that's with Tarik at -12 (-15, technically: TO, range, cover, Surprise shot) for that first attack. Tarik should be screwed in that case. But get Tarik down to -9 by denying cover (and surprise shot) and the odds go to what we've been complaining about. Tarik should have no business making shots at that distance, he should try to close to within 24" to get within his own +3 range. Get into Tarik's +3 range (and not get out of the HMG's +3 range, so 16-24") and the odds shift to a 47% chance of winning the FTF and a total of ~75% chance of not getting hurt. That's pretty gross for being in one of the deadliest AROs in the game's +3 range!
Well, Asawiras are basically Haqq knights. Very similar archetype in terms of stats and rules, just with Haqq flavour (rifle combos instead of combi/multi, doctor+, toolboxy escort instead of what used to be tough escort etc.). Makes sense since RL asawiras were basically equivalents of European men-at-arms on the battlefield, which was the role of knights, to put it simply. Well, deadliness of such units comes from being able to catch entire fireteams, or maybe engage when enemy piece engages something else, forcing attacker to split burst at which point a single die with heavy mods on it becomes dangerous. Otherwise many active pieces in this game will feel fairly confident against B1 shooter no matter how many TO layers it sports. Granted, what Fat2 does to what could be really, really bad odds is indeed pretty gross.
To speak to the op, smoke shoot for PanO is typically unnecessary and costs an extra order. It works well with extreme impetuous warbands that are super discounted and going to spend the order anyway, but pano typically outshoots everyone anyways. The place that smoke would really help is obfuscating objectives. Fortunately, we have amazing camo and TO options to sneak by overwatching models. If you decide not to kill it for some reason, that is.
that's honestly a myth pano doesnt really outshoot everyone. The bonus to bs is nice but many of the top tier factions have high prevalence of camo or mimetism on good enough bs, that is relatively difficult to win in a straight up firefight . Mind you excellent pieces like nisse and kamau that combine their own visual mods and way to negate them are still great, but trying to brute force stuff with knights or orcs doesnt always work for example, smoke is a tool to have in an arsenal, and spending 1 order to block LoF is better than spending 3-5 to remove a road block anyway. Smoke is a pretty order efficient approach to moving across the board, I cant count the number of times not having smoke cost me like 4 additional orders to circumvent a fire lane
