How Infinity is designed those two concepts are inseparable. Why do you want to nerf a bunch of troops you have no problem with? Because the equation looks wrong even though the answer is right?
No. The answer is wrong. The issue is that I think many of the troops with submachine guns pack too much punch for their points cost, and I could think of many profiles that would be excellent if they replaced combis with smgs (and got the concommitant points discount). This points to the equipment itself being the problem.
I think comparing the SMG to the Assault Pistol is pretty informative. SMG DAM 13 B 3 AP/Shock Suppressive Fire 0-8/+3 8-16/0 16-24/-3 24-32/-6 Assault Pistol DAM 13 B 4 CC 0-8/+3 8-16/0 16-24/-6 If you were to ignore ammo types, the assault pistol is more threatening within 16", but with the longer range dropoff it has, it would be weird to give it suppressive fire. Also, assault pistols are classed as a sidearm, so they are frequently paired with other weapons that they may or may not synergize with. The two have always seemed redundant to me, and I think the ideal would be one profile that's somewhere in the middle. (Take, for example, the Kamau HRL+SMG vs. the Order Sergeant HRL+Assault Pistol)
This was the very conundrum that hit me when I was first posting... Because my initial reaction was "Why don't we just drop ammo and make burst 4", but then it felt even more like an assault pistol clone.
I feel like Thorakitai are the less popular link and the least popular Kriza has SMG. Blackjack Sniper seems priced fine to me. I don't know why you think these should be weakened.
The issue, as always, is that there are two components - the per-piece costs, and the cost for the entire loadout. You can have an underpriced piece of equipment (such as an SMG) on a troop that still has an overall reasonable cost if either the total cost is high enough that the error doesn't matter or if other pieces of equipment are overpriced or redundant. The main place this shows up are really bare-bones single-purpose units, where the historical choice of weapon has been the Combi, not the SMG. There are a whole bunch of specialist troops that you're not taking for their gunfighting ability that would get cheaper if they were updated to have this swap, while actually becoming more lethal over short range bands. Random example, Valerya Gromoz is a hacker who costs 21 points with a normal HD, combi, and pitcher. Bit is a killer hacker, but has a 4 point synced repeater-bot, SMG, pitcher, and deployable repeaters, and only costs 19 points. You're not taking either of them to win gun fights, but if they had the same primary weapon, Bit would actually cost more, which reflects the additional utility she offers (even taking the difference in cost and programs between their two hacking devices). Another example, a Krakot Renegade with 2 SMGs (so B 4 AP/Shock) still costs 1 point less than the loadout with a BSG. Templates are great, but it's really hard for me to justify paying more for half the burst, worse range bands, and worse special ammo selection.
Thoras a re super underrated, IMO. Arm 3 link with specialists, 360 visors, and Thrasy as an ODD attack piece to lead and have all the mods... I feel they're only lacking in having no generic Enomotachos model in the way the Myms have the Officer.
Those are an example of profiles that could retain an "AP SMG" or whatever. But the cheap-ass troops with SMGs should be nerfed in some way imo.
I would argue that while things have a set cost, Infinity is not balanced around those costs being accurate to usefulness. Some equipment such a regeneration is used as bloat and others such as mimetism as a cheap upgrade, and the designers are aware of that. Would you agree? I have to agree because I primarily use them, althou I use Best Girl Alke. I'm not going to say you are, but it really sounds like you agree it's a specific unit problem. Maybe some profiles abusing the SMG is a problem, I only use the Bashi so I don't know. We can change the SMG and manually change everyone who was fine before the nerf, or we could manually change the guys who are abusing the SMG.
It's certainly easier to only manually change the guys abusing the SMG, but I think it would be better game design to change the SMG and manually fix everyone else. We can start with dropping the SMG to pistol DAM, then maybe add ammo types. SMG gets slightly less B than the Assault Pistol, but better range.
I think the majority of the units that are equipped with SMGs are problematic in this way. Easier to change the SMG itself, then carve out exceptions for the specific units (Mainly 30+ point ones) that aren't unbalanced who carry it. Bashi is one of the ones who needs a point adjustment and removal of ability to threaten armor.
I think the Bashi Bazouk is definitely one of the units where the SMG's cost is highlighted. It's by far the cheapest loadout (12 pts, next is BSG at 15), and it has not only the SMG, but also a chain-colt. There's a bit of wackiness going on since the pistol and CCW options also vary by version, but the SMG actually has an upgrade there compared to the BSG, so the cost difference is even more egregious. And yes, I'm splitting hairs over a 3 point cost difference, but when that's 20-25% of the unit's total cost, it's pretty significant.
I hadn't thought about that because the BSG was already being discounted for me due to the other profiles. I think the other ones are still alright because they do enough to force me to take them, even if the cost isn't fair. I don't even mean to say SMG shouldn't be nerfed, just that everyone is trying to prove it's too cheap and that's an inaccurate perspective of how Infinity is balanced.
Can you back this statement up? 'cause it is very possible for CB to actually keep the SMG around as an intentionally overly efficient weapon that they can use to give unto the players seriously strong and over-optimised units like Thora360 and Bit, but that won't actually change that the SMG is going to be off the generally accepted power-curve other than it would make both you and Hecaton correct. And yes, the Thora360 is a serious powerhouse and says more about Frenzy and Fireteams than anything else in my opinion.
Seems like Assault Pistol has two universal features (and by "universal" I mean "in the two states of the US where the term is formally in use"): 1. It's semi-automatic as opposed to the fully automatic that an Assault Rifle or SMG would be. 2. It doesn't look like a "civilian" or sports configured gun. Sounds like an Assault Pistol as defined in Maryland and Hawaii is just a Pistol with larger magazine and more badass looks in game terms, and neither of those are modelled. Well, the second part IS modelled, but you get what I mean. Hell, look at the SMG article and push the translation to your own language which is German if I don't recall entirely wrong - you guys call it a "bullet spraying pistol" (so do we Swedes due to our love interest with Germany during the time period when SMGs were invented and formalised). Bullet Spraying Pistol is an awfully descriptive way of putting it, no? :p
Sry, but somthing went wrong in the translation :P In germany it's called "Maschinenpistole" which is a translation of "machine pistol"
