If you read my post you'll note that I said she's good but pretty reasonable in general, not that she was reasonable as a killer hacker, which is a misquote! So it's not ignoring any of those things! Please read things more carefully! She's good, but she's not overpowered. She's just got a lot of skills but outside of WIP and BTS some pretty average stats and very short ranged weaponry. And that's that! If you disagree then you disagree, but don't go putting words in my mouth. Anyway, combis are pointed fine, combination weapons are probably pointed a bit dodgily (if I did it myself, I'd say that rather being a base weapon cost with a flat extra cost for an extra weapon, combination weapons are treated as one single weapon with a cost based on that particular selection of weapons viability. So a LSG is +4 on a rifle but only +2 on a Combi, or whatever), SMGs are potentially sliiiiightly too cheap but at the same time it's... not really a big deal? I don't live in terror of the enemy taking SMGs, I never start the game by saying "oh noooo those three Tankos have SMGs... I'm doomed..."
Camo, infiltration cost a good chunk of points, then add in the MSV1. SMG's are still cheaper than a ap/shock weapon ought to be, but that comparison is just bad form.
It's Infinity and not 40k. You have no balance breaker in Infinity and no one said this. Your argumentation is black or white in this point. And if I would see a SMG and I have a unit with one wound and NWI, then I would have to play around this unit. What I learned about Infinity in the last month, when you have a cheeper option for a purpos, take the cheeper variant. And SMG is at the Moment a Swiss Army Knife tool for short range and ARO (with SF).
Yeah but the choice between a SMG and a Combi. The choice is between *unit with SMG* and *unit with combi* and the difference between the two is not going to be solely the gun they have. And they have different purposes, the SMG is actually a really poor offensive option on many troops because it's range band is pretty crap. If you can only accurately fire within 8" you have a problem, as that is a very dangerous range to be at (DTW range, notably).
That's a choice you as a player has, but we're not criticising the choices you make - we're criticising the choices CB made when they made the SMG so inexpensive and as such made profiles like Mary so inexpensive. The SMG isn't just effective at short range, it's actually more effective than the Boarding Shotgun at 8-16", and if it's backed up by ODD...
More effective at what? What if you want an impact template to shred stuff behind, one of the biggest draws of th BSg? What if you want to ARO and you're not in suppression with the SMG? I'd rather have a Boarding Shotgun than an SMG in many situations and that includes at 8-16" Mary is not a problem for the game, Mary works just fine. The SMG is arguably slightly too cheap and I'm not really arguing with that! But don't really think it's a big deal at all, in fact, I don't think it really seems to make any difference in the wider game as played. But my point is more of a wider one too, which is that on this forum we focus way too much on the minutiae, individual weapon pt costs, micro-comparisons between troops statlines. But when you look at the profiles and tactics available for use... the SMG isn't a problem, the SMG is variation and makes troops work differently, which is good! You might say the SMG is underpriced, but I don't think there's any SMG profiles I see around where I think "that is a bullshit profile!"
The surest sign that there is a problem with the current points of any item is when the "How to fix [unit]" changes from "give it Mimetism" to "Give it an SMG"
There's a simple reason why SMG on Mary Problems isn't a problem: cost of Assault Hacking Device. Mary basically ends being costed fine by combining overpriced and underpriced pieces of equipment.
I don't think I can agree to this assessment. The problem with Assault Hacking Devices is their lack of decent self-defence programs to put up a decent fight against Killer Hacking Devices - and that's where the KHD she's got comes in. Kind of like how a model with a Light Shotgun and Missile Launcher is strictly better than a model with just one or the other (in the imaginary case where pistols don't exist)
What about all the units that don't get underpriced equipment and are stuck with overpriced equipment?
I do love that they just released what would be considered a pretty mediocre troop based around the SMG but calling her strong fits the point so we'll just pretend she is.
24 points for BS12, Mimetism, forward deployment and B4 AP/Shock, with viral mines? I definitely would not consider that mediocre, assuming we're thinking of the same troop
Suddenly short ranged, not fully infiltrated troops without token state are good? What makes her better enough than a Zerat to go from "only sectorial" and zip past mediocre?
Just because you’re right and it’s possible to build a mediocre troop with SMGs doesn’t mean that SMGs aren’t undercosted. Aida’s problem is that she doesn’t have a purpose: she’s actually extremely good for an not fully infiltrated, non-token, non-minelayer, non-specialist short ranged attack piece. So she ends up at mediocre instead of utter trash, something that takes real effort. But she’s emblematic of CBs design philosophy: balance at the troop / profile / faction level not at the skill/equipment cost level.
She's a low-investment over-extension punisher. It's perfectly doable to have her prone on the stairs of a Q-building all game in order to protect your grubby Fusiliers from a Rambo on that flank. Her profile is enough to rebuff most attack REMs, certainly is to counter-attack them, and the mines allows her to do something about most marker state troopers as well. What I find most interesting is how much Skornergy they managed to implement by giving her nearly exclusive shock-capable weapons and Scavenger.
