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Sin-Eater vs Reaktion Zond as ARO Piece

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Ghost87, Feb 5, 2018.

  1. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Very likely, yeah. The total height of the building was 10cm, however, and... well. Lack of logic from the rules here. The attacker had LoF for all position, so it wasn't really needed, and the "repair while hanging" is a legitimate question (one of the PanO TAGs has climbing plus. And the Sphinx XD). The building's height was 10cm, so no damage for falling per the rules also. and while it would have needed to make a Damage 10 ARM roll, it was destroyed without repair option, so... :/
     
    #21 xagroth, Feb 6, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
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  2. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    That is only for units with Super-Jump. Every other unit takes falling damage for any distance. We were playing this wrong for a while and it really threw my local group a wrench when we realised how it really works.
     
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  3. T. Rex Pushups

    T. Rex Pushups Well-Known Member

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    As a person with a Tomcat on his hobby table I need to know this answer.
     
  4. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Yea, they super do.
     
  5. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    and
    and take falling damage too
     
  6. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    For me I have a hard time justifying the point cost of the sineater.
    Plus the utility of a fast offensive hmg means my opponent sort of has to deal with my TR bot as opposed to just smoking lof to the sineater.
    The rem is easily killed by a to sniper outside it's hmg range.. but you do have to kill it and when you do you are only out 1swc.
     
  7. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Still, first order of the game knocking out a 26pt 1 SWC REM is not a bad opening order. If you had order to kills ratios like that all game, it'd last less than one turn. Which is why I don't leave them out like that, and mostly use them like HMGs that I can buff, who also happen to have this cool reaction ability which I use to cover one specific firelane which doesn't go into the enemy deployment zone and instead just cuts off an advance. Putting TR bots on roofs covering the whole board; good way to lose a TR bot.

    Sin-Eaters are like TR bots that are better at the static defence, way better, but way worse on the active. If you want a totally reactive piece, Sin-Eaters are worth the investment over the TR bot, if you don't, then the TR is cheaper. Don't be suckered into thinking it's cheaper and also better because you can slap MML2 on it mind, that hacker costs points and SWC and an order to use the program, whereas the Sin-Eater just rolls out.
     
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  8. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    If you aren't smart with them you may as well leave Jaguars standing around to be shot. Either way your opponent would take the shot and spend an order if they're going to win anyways you may as well spend 10 pts and just dodge.

    A good opponent will have something that can kill it, deploy so they can't use that guy from their deployment and clear you out for one order. I hardly ever justify an order to smoke my Intruder but if they set their guys up like pins I will and every one will die turn 1 before I touch McMurrough's order pool. Deployment is hard even if you have full B you're on their terms on their turn.

    That's why I use a lot of stuff like sniper AROs (even at flat 1 B), if you deploy them right it has the exact same effect: total avoidance. If you deploy them wrong you get the same effect: instant death. Of course the high B lets you pin guys you normally couldn't sometimes to game-ending results.
     
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  9. Andre82

    Andre82 Well-Known Member

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    I once screwed up my deployment so bad that I got locked down by a single Lasiq sniper. Had to spend most of my first turn just digging myself out of that hole.
     
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  10. HarlequinOfDeath

    HarlequinOfDeath Tha Taskmastaaa
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    It is pretty easy. Apart from BS etc.: You can use a TR Drone as plan B with Climbing Plus in active turn.

    A Sin-Eater is very static and a 1W ARO piece. Nothing more.

    Since many mention the Mimetism... most often you face an enemy MSV trooper. So it is pretty useless to me.
     
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  11. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Last time I did that with my Intruder they had a simple solution: Use both move values towards me in a straight line and have me miss multiple shots on 16.

    That really limits the amount of troops you need to deploy to avoid. With the exception of like 5 or 6 guys (half of which must be linked) only MSV snipers can do that safely. Mimetism isn't always for actually applying to the enemy, it's to further limit which troop they need to use to defeat you. If they have one troop on the field that can beat the Sin Eater, not only do they NEED to redeploy it to attack you, if they take a lucky shot back it's over.

    If their MSV guy is 3 move orders away even if they kill you in one order their first turn is cut a lot shorter.
     
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  12. HarlequinOfDeath

    HarlequinOfDeath Tha Taskmastaaa
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    Like I mentioned, in a tournament I would not rely on such a static 1W model as ARO piece. It never worked out for me or my opponents.

    In a casual match when I create a story background I like to take the Sin-Eater and play him as a Reverend Healer bodyguard.

    Yes, he has a higher BS, Armor and Mimetism. But he is so damn static. Give him the same Burst in active and passive turn and the points cost is ok. Otherwise in my opinion the discount from Neurocinetics should be higher.
     
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  13. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    I don't know about the Sin Eater specifically, I bet Riot Grrls eat all the SWC in tournament, but many very competitive players use 1 W troops with ARO capability. Including the lists CB published from Interplanetario placers.
     
  14. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Yeaaah... but those are not single piece ARO, or are linked, or use special ammo (shock, viral, etc...) or have things that let them reposition. None cost 2 SWC and have 1W, btw.
     
  15. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    I cannot belive that there is people saying that the TR Remote might be better than the Sin-Eater.

    I mean, everytime I complain when comparing the Chaksa Neurocinetics with any TR Remote, everybody (non-Tohaa) in this forum tells me that I cannot complain because the Chaksa can Dodge way better than any Remote, and that makes the Chaksa far superior. If the Sin-Eater shoots better, is more difficult to hit him, and has better armour that the Chaksa, then the Sin-Eater is much better that the Chaksa. So, if "Sin-Eater > Chaksa", and if "Chaksa > TR Remote", then the Sin-Eater is waaaay better that the TR Remote.
     
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  16. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Every other ARO troop is different because the Sin Eater HMG is completely unique. That doesn't imply anything.

    The Sin Eater MSR hits your requirements though.
     
  17. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Context! On the Nomads lists, having hackers is a given, so the TR gets to ignore cover and use shock ammo... plus climbing plus lets it move around with its 15-10 movement, keeping the B4 in active and reactive, all by 1 SCW cost!

    The Sin Eater has B1 in active turn, moves 10-5, cost double SWC... sure, it can dodge better (in those situations, mimetism is useless 90% of the time btw) but that's all. I see him in a non-hackers nomad list, and as support, but he's a turret that won't move most of the time.


    Th eopportunity cost on losing 2 burst from HMG to MSR is too steep to most people :p
     
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  18. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    "Unfortunately, the Sin Eater is too strong to meet the requirements of a competitive ARO peice."

    Like I said, I don't know how much Sin Eaters are used, but there's nothing specifically wrong with him to cause it.

    If we don't like it I bet Ariadna would take it off our hands.

    There's also I believe 1 Bakunin player here and maybe 1 or 2 Nomads that play on a level where they need to worry about that.
     
  19. Benjamin

    Benjamin New Member

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    Yup. that like 4swc right there.

    A typical Riot Grrl link looks like this in my army

    [​IMG]5
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 34)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL Missile Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 33)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Blitzen, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Blitzen, Stun Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)
    [​IMG] RIOT GRRL Boarding Shotgun, Stun Grenades + TinBot B (Deflector L2) / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30)

    4 SWC | 157 Points

    However it makes this lady look really interesting

    [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] KUSANAGI Lieutenant MULTI Rifle + Light Flamethrower, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Shock CCW. (+1 | 44)

    0 SWC | 44 Points

    Do note, I typical run with 10 order bakunin lists

    This way, a good HMG sin-eater is posible while still having hacker support
     
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  20. HarlequinOfDeath

    HarlequinOfDeath Tha Taskmastaaa
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    If you are decide to dodge instead of using your Neurocinetics burst, something is going wrong. :)

    I play Infinity now for a year and participated in about 11 tournaments in different "metas". I am not a top-notch player, but not too bad, nowadays always in the upper third of the placements and won a tournament as well.

    In this tournaments I experienced just two times Bakunin players (never Vanilla) with a Sin-Eater. The first Sin-Eater was in my first tournament match overall versus @Tristan228 and I didn't know what to do. I lost orders and models because of my lack of knowledge.

    The second time was at my last tournament in Switzerland. Since I was more experienced the Sin-Eater died instantly to a drone after the second shooting because of - guess what - Shock.

    Maybe @Tristan228 can say more about the Sin-Eater, since he used him some time.

    Concerning the Interplanetario lists the second placed guy played Vanilla Nomads with two TR drones and no Sin-Eater. I used his list quite a few times now and tweaked it and the Remote Presence is annoying and hard for your opponent to play against. Every time I used two TR drones my opponents ranted because of them.
     
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