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Shooting the back of silhouettes and facing

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Hecaton, Feb 27, 2018.

  1. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    you guys know there is equally weird stupidity the pre-faq way it was played.

    IE:
    Draw LOF from any point on your sillie
    Opponent must be in fron 180

    it led to situations where you could shoot the opponent in their front and they couldnt shoot back because you were in their back 180.

    Its all just the result of the limitations of the geometric models, angle the model and solve the issue, as maht and barakiel said, you dont get to have your cake and eat it
     
  2. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Isn't this still the case... and rightly so? If you are in their back 180°, but they are tilted so that you can draw a LoF to their front arc, that doesn't mean they can shoot you. Or an I misunderstanding what you are saying?
     
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  3. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Ditto, I'm surprised this wasn't said sooner.
     
  4. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
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    So one of the other options, of course, is to simply abolish facing.

    I'm expecting most people to be aghast at this suggestion, but I think the number of circumstances where facing meaningfully impacts gameplay are pretty small.
     
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  5. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Depends on the player and the unit.

    Its fairly massive for ad
     
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  6. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
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    I agree; AD is one of the few cases where I see it come up where it's not an issue of player carelessness or weird rules interactions.
     
  7. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    I use attacking from behind troops a lot in CHA. Mostly i figured if you dont let your opponent roll a f2f then the dice cant go bad on you.

    With 20+ orders camo abd ph14 smoke its actually pretty common to walk past an opponentd troops and tje attack them next order
     
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  8. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

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    Facing also means you can't over extend your forces, without the risk of being shot in the back there's far less risk in charging a bunch of shotgun guys up the field for 8" AROs...
     
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  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    For me: much more often than CC happens.
     
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  10. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    Yes, that Facing matters to any degree is something that occurs in my games all the time, and moreso than CC, as you say.

    But I wonder if Toadchild wasn’t asking a deeper question about Facing here?
    Do you mean “would it really change the game so very much if units had 360 degree vision instead”, @toadchild?
     
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  11. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    No, I really mean, facing matters a lot. It's the defining concern of any movement and shooting models in the back is something I strive for and also something that's a lot more common for me than CC. You can completely remove CC values and CC weapons from the game and it'll make less impact.
     
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  12. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
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    It's always interesting to hear from players whose experiences are different than mine! As alluded to above, in my games facing usually only matters if something like AD is involved, the reactive player just made a foolish mistake in how they placed the model, or if the active player has broken through the lines in a very dramatic way and is traversing the enemy's deployment zone.
     
  13. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
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    That's more or less what I was suggesting.
     
  14. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    This is actually one of the big draws I had for an SAS sniper, I never could justify the pts on that one unfortunately but in USARF Im very much looking forwards to the same with foxtrots at some point
     
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  15. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    Yes, you're one of the few people on the forum who seems able to acknowledge what the rules actually say, compartmentalizing your own personal preferences, and considering other ways of playing. By contrast, most people here seem irrevocably caught up in notions that the rules must back up whatever it is that they personally want them to mean (and yes, I'm referring to the Interpretation That Cannot Be Named™)

    So I recall your remarks in this spirit last year - that pre-measuring for movement wouldn't change the game substantively, and whilst I didn't really agree with that, in this case, I think I might.
     
  16. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    Much like the absence of pre-measuring though, I do think choosing facing definitely is a skill that creates a differential between players in a healthy way. My experience playing against those who always consistently had their models facing really well thought out always drew a lot of respect from me as a player.
     
  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I think the implication is that you'd only be able to do that in the context of "reciprocal" LoF.
     
  18. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    doesnt matter, the rules are clear post FAQ, you can only draw LOF from the Front half of your base to a target within the front 180.

    Anything else is fair game to be shot and no "mutual awareness" kicks in anymore than if the enemy was directly behind you
     
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  19. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I agree, and more importantly it's not like there's always an obvious answer as to what the "right" way to be facing is. Choosing facing is one of those choices that I think is "interesting" and should be kept in the game. It adds a lot of depth.
     
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  20. GrantC

    GrantC Active Member

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    Going back to @toadchild's suggestion about 360 degree facing, a less impactful change for a future version would be to keep facing but always allow AROs if you get shot. Still a big change of course, giving much less opportunity for normal rolls, but it keeps the important aspects of facing for AD troops/sneaking about, and still makes it something you'd have to consider.

    (Possibly AROs with a modifier, but that would still allow for facing shenanigans, they'd just be less lethal).
     
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