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Shooting (BS attack) in a deployed weapon

Discussion in 'Rules' started by P4ela154, Jun 29, 2021.

  1. P4ela154

    P4ela154 Member

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    Can i declare bs attack with template in a triggered:
    1. Mine
    2. Previously discovered mine
    3. Drop bear
    4. Crazy Koala

    In the rules of mines written:
    Once a Mine triggers, it is removed from play.

    Mine is removed immedietly or in paragraph 6 of Trooper Activations Rules?
     
    #1 P4ela154, Jun 29, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2021
  2. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It's not very clear cut, I'll give you that, but a mine that triggers is "immediately" removed meaning there's nothing left to measure to at resolution and nothing to validate against.
    Granted, All at Once makes this iffy, but I believe that the above interpretation held true in N3 so it should still be valid since nothing in logic has truly changed.


    Edit: On second thought All At Once should allow you to target a previously revealed mine.

    Undiscovered mines do not drop camouflage when detonating, so that's a clear no-go.

    Perimeter weapons however move to the enemy and are removed after detonation, you should be able to target it at any point of that movement.
     
    #2 Mahtamori, Jun 29, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2021
  3. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    I think the same logic would apply as with mines - the notional movement and detonation happen immediately on triggering (Boost is no longer an ARO the way it was in N3), so by the time you declare your BS attack, the perimeter weapon is gone and no longer exists along its movement path.

    If the perimeter weapon continued to exist on its movement path after detonation, then the mine would also exist in its original position after detonation. Which I agree with you is probably not the case, although I also agree it's not clearcut.

    Also, if the perimeter weapon can be targeted, it would only work if the active trooper has lof to the weapon's starting position. Otherwise the weapon's owner could just declare a convoluted movement path that circles around and approaches the active trooper from its back arc.
     
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Had to put my editing down to run to the bus, but... I do think All At Once should apply and I see nothing that would prevent the mine or perimeter from being attacked provided they are allowed to be attacked at all (i.e. not in Camouflaged state when detonating)

    Regarding Boost movement; I'm a bit bothered with that they write "move", but the fact that the Perimeter will actually move into contact with your trooper physically is the reason why you get a Dodge at no MOD for LOF to attacker. Yeah, the opponent can take a circular path around you and yeah this does make a player who can't be arsed potentially Gotcha-ing themselves because of it, and yeah I'm bothered that the movement is so poorly defined in this edition.
     
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  5. P4ela154

    P4ela154 Member

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    But in Mine's rules written: "Once a Mine triggers, it is removed from play" - not "Once a Mine triggers, it is removed from play immidietly".

    This can be deciphered as:
    - It is removed immediately so that you cannot attack it.
    - Removed in step 6 of Trooper Activations Rules, because mine is disposable.
     
  6. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    Sure - we're agreed that it's not totally clear. My point in reply to Mahtamori was that mines and perimeter weapons should work the same way. You can either target both, or neither.
     
  7. Lawson

    Lawson Well-Known Member

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    Is there a reason for shooting at a triggered mine, assuming it's visible?
    Would it be just because you're trying to DTW a Camouflaged enemy and using the mine as a target as an excuse.
     
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  8. P4ela154

    P4ela154 Member

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    This
     
    Lawson likes this.
  9. P4ela154

    P4ela154 Member

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    Is it possible to see the resolution in the nearest FAQ, or in the topic according to the rules on the forum (as was the case with the declare CC attack Only at the silhuette contact, before the new FAQ)?
     
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    After the forums caused an absolute shit storm while CB was on vacation, IJW has been on hiatus so the chances of getting a quality response soon is fairly low.
    I'll add it to the unanswered thingy to promote it a bit as I think it's been resurfacing every now and then for around 10 years now...
     
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  11. P4ela154

    P4ela154 Member

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    Thank you!
     
  12. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    It took me a while to figure out what the timing scenario for this was. If I'm not mistaken, it's this one:

    - Activate and declare a Move into the activation range of the mine/Koala/etc.
    - Deployable weapon does its thing
    - You want to declare a circular template attack at the deployable weapon, unsure of whether it's still there or not.

    For non-discovered mines, the answer is easy due to a technicality: When a mine goes off, it doesn't drop camo first. So you can't shoot it with a template weapon after triggering it.

    Otherwise, there's no reason take that "Once the mine triggers, it's removed from play" as any more immediate than the preceding bullet points concerning the template that the mine places during triggering. Nothing you can do will stop a Crazy Koala or Mine detonating after triggering it, but by the same token nothing in those rules supersedes the general timing of the order--you can, after all, still declare and resolve Dodge after a Crazy Koala or mine detonate, so you know they don't resolve immediately.
     
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