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Shasvastii: Remote-focused build might not suck?

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Savnock, Mar 18, 2018.

  1. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    So I'm thinking about taking Shasvastii to the Interplanetario. There are several reasons, but mostly I both love them and enjoy playing weird, unexpected things even if they are demonstrably mechanically sucky. Also I got a fully-painted army of them (plus a few Onyx units) for really cheap, and it will be my only army when I go back to the States this summer so I should be decently practiced by Vigo-time.

    I could use your advice on whether the plan and list below look viable, Combined generals (and the few of you out there who are crazy enough to play SEF itself).

    As far as I can tell, the things that do -not- suck in SEF (are par for points-to-power versus other armies' units) are the Shrouded, the Sphinx, Malignos AHDs, Noctifers, and maaaaaybe Gwailo links with Hasht at the head. Is that fairly accurate?

    Then we have the standard Combined remotes... especially the Q-drones, E-drone, and Ikadrons. Oh, and Bit and Kiss. Those are all great values. I wish I could get two M-drones to make up for the lack of visors, too.

    So a plan formed in my alien frog/spore brain to try out a list that uses those remotes well.

    [​IMG] SEF 300 BotRush
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] SHROUDED Hacker (EI Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 30)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] Q-DRONE Plasma Rifle / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    [​IMG] M-DRONE Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] ASWANG Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4
    [​IMG] Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] HAIDUK Smart MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 23)
    [​IMG] E-DRONE Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    A team of 4 remotes using Coordinated Order could move up to get into range for either regular facepunching (plasma Q-drones are remarkably nasty with Marksmanship and the HMG one gives a ranged attack option), Sat-Lock, or some good hack attacks. In between forward moves, they use the TR bots, Ikadron flamers, and some repeater coverage to make wherever they are difficult to assault.

    Meanwhile the Shrouded are there to push buttons on the offensive, or be mine-dropping speedbumps if I get rushed. I wish I could fit 4 in. And with the EVO program that boost remotes with repeater to B2 AROs plus a few Shrouded speedbumps, I hope this list could survive going second pretty well.

    I threw in a Smart Sniper as another option, both for ARO and for attacking camo things that have been detected and targeted via Sat-Lock (or annoying Suppressive Fire dudes if my Ikadrons are already dead).

    I really like the look of the hacking options: Exile give the remote attack group another option vs. links, if they can get close enough to get the hack out.

    So, does that sound vaguely doable, or would a decent updated army with actually-viable linkteams and the like take this list to pieces?
     
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  2. Leviathan

    Leviathan Hungry Caliban

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    That honestly seems quite good. I think some matchups would be a little difficult, it'll depend on how well you can deploy and set up to counter stuff like HI fireteams. Do you feel the Aswang is a good LT choice here? vs, say, a Noctifer for similar points?
     
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  3. RobertShepherd

    RobertShepherd Brisk antipodean

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    I like it. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a scathing indictment of the sectorial that one of the best ways to play it seems to be with as few shasvastii as possible. But I like it. :p
     
    #3 RobertShepherd, Mar 20, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
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  4. Scactha

    Scactha Member

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    Ahem, I couldn´t disagree more that going all in on Rems is a must with Shas. As a main Shas player I do use the (HMG) Q-Drone, but only for anchoring a flank.

    On the contrary Shas is spoiled for choices on both the defense and offense, but their main thing is to not give away their plan. Joining Drone Club gives away that advantage for a gain that can be found outside the sectorial, at which point the question rises why even bother with the alien frogs?
     
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  5. froste

    froste Member

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    would love to hear some of your strategies
     
  6. Scactha

    Scactha Member

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  7. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    The Noctifer looks good but costs SWC, which I'm short on here. Also, going on offense with an Lt. the last turn, I would fear the Aswang a bit more (has decent CC ability for getting dudes off objectives, including if the opponent drops smoke).

    I looked at your other post, and really appreciate how specific you are about the tactics and deployment. Thanks for sharing that! I might try that for my second list, or I might go Sphinx.

    My main question about your list recommendations, is how do you break that lineup up across two order groups?

    [​IMG] MUCH SHROUD SO MALIGNOS
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] NOCTIFER Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 30)
    [​IMG] NOCTIFER Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] SPECULO KILLER Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW, Knife. (1 | 34)
    [​IMG] MALIGNOS Hacker (EI Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 41)
    [​IMG] ASWANG Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  8. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    @Savnock What do you think of this rendition of your idea?
    [​IMG] Shasvastii Expeditionary Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7
    [​IMG] ASWANG Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7
    [​IMG] Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)
    [​IMG] E-DRONE Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 28)
    [​IMG] M-DRONE Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)

    4 SWC | 297 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  9. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    I like it mostly, but the groupings of orders are a little odd. I'm not a fan of all order groups being below 8.

    Bumping the Q-drones up to the first group will let you use them offensively, while still having 5 orders in the second group to take on support tasks (using Sensor, flamering things, running Supportware on the Q-drones, etc.).
     
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  10. Scactha

    Scactha Member

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    You´re welcome :)

    My aim is usually 10+3 orders, with a Seed, Q-Drone and Noctifer ML in the 3 orders group from this example as they are mostly reactive. Looking at your list I notice another rule of Shas I've concluded for myself, but didn´t mention; when deciding what Infiltrators to use pick either of Shrouded and Malignos, never both. The reason is TO which eats into the Order pool as Hidden Deployed are not on the table until revealed and most importantly the psychological advantage of either having an empty midline or one saturated with camo markers.

    Case one means the opponent have to treat the whole midline as a danger zone and slowly probe going forward and case two he has to look at each marker as a potential mine or Shrouded which lets you control his approach. As such this affects Shas whole strategy.

    If going for Malignos dedicate one as second offensive tool after a non-TO troop does its part. Say a Cadmus (plus a EVO Hacker to make him hit the drop zone) is the first offensive troop. If you add three Malignos, say 2x FO and Monofile Miner, one FO goes into the second combat Group and the other into the first. Now you start group one at 8 orders and have flexibility.

    Going Shrouded, Noctifers gets to play. Now you you put a Noct into each combat Group (ML into 2nd of course) and still have a hefty pool of Orders to press the assault.

    Thus I´d exchange the Malignos for something to boost numbers up to thirteen models. E.g. a second Ikadrone and a Seed. Seeds aren´t good, but they actually are harder to rambo as they start camouflaged. That´s some protection. They are also nice bait to use with Nocts.
     
  11. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    @Scactha , I see what you're saying about order balance in certain groups, and now I see how the Shrouded and the Noctifers can balance together. I might try sticking closer to the list I gave, but adopting your tactics too and at least one more order. Channeling opponents away from a Camo minefield to a seemingly more open approach (looking like a refused flank with some open area int he opposite diagonal area) would be a nice combo of the 2.

    The idea of a Malignos Assault Hacker and a Noctifer ML both laying in wait to cover the same approach is really amusing. Freezing heavy troops and then hitting them with the ML (and a choice of whether to Reset or Dodge) would be most enjoyable.

    To that end I may actually ditch the second Shrouded FO and use those points for more orders like you recommend. That also lets me take an M-drone. We have a lot of players who love popping out TO specialists on the last turn around here in France, so Sensor has come in handy quite a bit. With all the JSA we're probably about to see, ninja-proofing will be very handy. Also, another specialist.

    So it might end up looking like this:

    [​IMG] MUCH SHROUD SO MALIGNOS
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] SPECULO KILLER Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW, Knife. (1 | 34)
    [​IMG] NOCTIFER Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 30)
    [​IMG] NOCTIFER Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] MALIGNOS Hacker (EI Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 41)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9)
    [​IMG] M-DRONE Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2
    [​IMG] ASWANG Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    [​IMG] Q-DRONE HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
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  12. Scactha

    Scactha Member

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    @Savnock That looks good imo and I like the reasoning. Popping out Clipsos to tag Antennas and whatnot is equally popular in Sweden :) Be careful though that if you cover the half midfield with camo markers that is also covered by the Q-Drone they will smell a trap. Again the issue with the mixed infiltrators, yet the mine can be stretched out far enough to make a realistic appearance of total coverage I reckon.
     
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  13. Aemaru

    Aemaru Well-Known Member
    Aristeia! Warcor

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    @Savnock @Golem2God

    no noctifer ml and no speculo killer ! It’s not a shasvastii list :p
    From what i experienced Try to build a list without dronebot and you will get much more fun to play
    People know how to handle q drone easy they have solutions for that and won’t loose too many orders to get them down. Speculo will make them loose much more orders and if you re are 1st player you can make bsg rampage :D and i prefer a noctifer as defense tower because your opponent will be very careful if he sees a gap of 1,5 swc in your list ... he will be shy and won’t expose a ft or a big piece of his army. Q drone seems just so easy to play but they are too limited compare to what you have access in SEF
    My little contribution to your list building post :)
     
    #13 Aemaru, Mar 25, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
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  14. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    @Aemaru : What? The version just above has both a Speculo Killer and 2 Noctifers (ML, Spitfire).

    @Scactha and Aemaru, good point. Maybe I'll watch the camo tokens with the Q-Drone at the midfield, make it look like a genuine refused flank. Let them waste orders on the Q-Drone, because if they approach on that side there are mines. I want them nervous, wondering what's on the "empty" half of the field. I might put the Spitfire over there too, just to keep them spooked.

    This kind of thing just makes it clear that the thing CB should be building for with Shasvastii are ghoulish head-games. They should be the nasty lurking terror troopers. If they can get that, when this army gets redone it is going to be SO MUCH FUN to play.
     
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  15. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    There is so much hope for this to happen in my book. Infinity doesn't have a faction/sectorial that plays like that. Shas would be the perfect ones to make those lists/players a reality.
    Got any lists that would execute the idea?
     
  16. Aemaru

    Aemaru Well-Known Member
    Aristeia! Warcor

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    Oups missed your list i’m new to this forum didn’t catch the buton to see your list :)

    The only thing about this list is that you can do it in ca vanilla army so you don’t earn anything with sectorial sef ? 1 spec 2 shrouded 1 q drone and 0 link team
    To make your opponent nervous take 4 shrouded and 2 spec killer :D
     
    #16 Aemaru, Mar 26, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
  17. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Yeah, I'm beginning to realize why everyone takes vanilla these days to simulate Shasvastii plus a crutch for whatever they are missing (visors, cheap flamer/chainrifle troops, etc.).

    That said, I also want the glory of being able to make a strong showing with a gimped army. A friend of mine who wins a lot of stuff just switched from his killer MO to... MRRF. And he's already getting really good with them. Despite my being a less skilled player than him, I think I want to cultivate a "handicap" army as well, just for fun.
     
  18. Aemaru

    Aemaru Well-Known Member
    Aristeia! Warcor

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    Yea i know him we used to play often with tom

    What i meant was that from my point of view you can prepare more specific shasvatii list with 2 speculoo or 4 shrouded and a gwailo linkteam to exploit shasvastii strenghs :)
     
  19. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Have you and I met before? Sorry, I'm bad with forum nicknames (but decent with real-world faces :) ).

    Oh yeah, I hear you. I'll definitely be trying those options out a bit. The Gwailo link is one I really look forward to playing for fun.
     
  20. Aemaru

    Aemaru Well-Known Member
    Aristeia! Warcor

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    Hey I think we have been to several tournament in paris (and we went to drink some beers after i believe :p)
    I usually play tohaa but give a try to shasvastii :)

    Yesterday i played quadrant control with this list with quite a good result .. it's not an optimised list but very fun to play ;)

    [​IMG] Shasvastii Expeditionary Force
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    [​IMG]10

    [​IMG] MALIGNOS Hacker (EI Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 41)
    [​IMG] MALIGNOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 36)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] SHROUDED (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
    [​IMG] NOCTIFER Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32)
    [​IMG] ASWANG Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Adhesive Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 26)
    [​IMG] Bit Hacker (UPGRADE: Expel) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Deployable Repeater + KISS! / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] KISS! Adhesive Launcher / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] SPECULO KILLER Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW, Knife. (1 | 34)
    [​IMG] SPECULO KILLER Boarding Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Monofilament CCW, Knife. (1 | 34)
    6 SWC | 297 Points


    Open in Infinity Army