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Shasvastii on Neoterra!

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by daboarder, Aug 18, 2018.

  1. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    this is fine, most TAG lists are, thats what they excel at anyway.

    Talk about Eggs in one basket..... without the Marut, you have actually no way to clear out ARO pieces, whether that be a TR bot, or a linked sniper, or anything with a defensive mod. a list like this is just waiting for an one to ruin your day. I see where your coming from with the specialists, they seem well spread along with a decent hacker network. It seems a list like this can snowball very hard against you.
     
  2. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    So long as there is no exclusion zone, both Naga and Posthuman MkII are excellent at removing long range threats by getting into close range via Camo state and fighting them in close.

    Agema as well is a decent way to handle TR bots and similar by shooting them at extreme range, and ideally through smoke.

    Actually the biggest problem here is, as usual for Aleph and low order lists, high camo and Mines.
     
  3. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I think my biggest issue is only two "real" weapons, and one of them is a B1 missile launcher. three of your orders are very susceptible to being blasted away for more or less free, the net rods. I would also have a big issue with going second with this list. there is very little to stop the enemy from walking up and sensoring mid board, taking out any potential threats and crippling the Marut that way.
     
  4. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache
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    So far, weapons have not shown to be a major problem.

    Netrods, on the other hand, are the usual pain. I've been playing with them so long I half expect them to scatter off the board anyway and if they land, that's a plus :D

    As for sensoring, I've never had it done to me but I'd like it very much. Lots of Orders spent, but honestly, not that big of a deal. THey are usually hidden on roofs or corners, and digging them out even when revealed is often easier said than done (although I do roll badly often...) And they still need go ppast AAgema and likely Marut (and possibly MkV Flash Pulse).
     
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  5. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I'd be very interested to play you my friend, although that will probably never happen. I'm always interested to see what happens when two very different play styles and play philosophies interact.

    The closest I came to that was GenCon and had a ton of fun!
     
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  6. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    It feels like several people are greatly under-valuing a TAG's movement. Paraphrasing Rommel here, "A TAG's greatest weapon is it's engine."



    I have, but in that same game I killed enemy 8/10 models before I got greedy and tried to kill the Szallie (and engineer) with fire... Szallie lit me on fire in exchange! I burned down 2STR, took a fist to the face for the 3rd. And by that time I was so far outside support range that I couldn't get an engineer up to fix the Cutter.

    Most of my shots that game were flat-out Normal Rolls (N2 rules, Surprise Shot was a normal roll, a survivor then got to shoot back in a normal roll), and my opponent deployed poorly. I managed to knock a hole in his line, then ran through it and shot pretty much everyone else in the back. Sure, I spent all 10 orders on the Cutter's attack, but I'd effectively neutered his own Szallie due to loss of orders.
     
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  7. Doa

    Doa Well-Known Member

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    Could give me link/name of this blog?
    Thanks
     
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  8. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

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    Doa and Teslarod like this.
  9. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    sigh, do I even want to bother this time?

    How often do we have to teach the same leasons to players? Part of the point of the TAG primer was so we could have this conversation less often.

    TAGs are great, Big guns, High arm, Extreme mobility and scoring make them an excellent package.

    The fact that PanO TAGs have additional benefits and the best ability to support those TAGs in the game makes them even better.
    If you are stuggling wiht using TAGs well, then perhaps try and ask how others use them rather than say they are bad when they are clearly not.
     
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  10. Abydog

    Abydog Well-Known Member

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    that is what troubles mehr too
     
  11. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    The S7 TAG's itself are fine. Their utility is the problem when you run into tables like this:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    I'd consider all those unplayable for a S7. Tik and Sphinx will somehow manage most of them thanks to S6 and C+. Seraph works on half of them - the ones where there aren't any gaps so a S7 could actually advance across the field. A Cutter in HD can still play the open ones.

    Didn't even bother to go through everything, that's just the first batch. About 50% of them are straight up terrible if you have to go 2nd because Total Cover for S7 is simply non existent. The rest doesn't allow a S7 to access the battlefield properly.

    And then there is this:
    [​IMG]
    What the actual fuck.
    Cool tables and all, but sometimes I wonder if CB plays their own game.
     
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  12. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    CB doesn't own those tables. They're brought by the community. When you need to put 100+ tables together, it becomes a huge consideration, and vetting them all beforehand and "turning away the ones you don't like" isn't really possible from an organizer perspective. We know this experience in the US based on Rumble, which has similar table requirements.
     
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  13. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    No supervision at all about setting up those tables?

    It's kind of a problem when an entire class of troops is unable to perform reliably because a 3rd party is in charge of terrain.

    We had the same issue at the German Masters as well. But TO's simply don't give a damn about giving extra consideration to TAGs.
     
  14. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    Wow, those are just terrible tables for infinity in general. Think about how much of the board you can cover in long range AROs.
     
    #134 Death, Aug 25, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
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  15. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    those tables seem terrible in general nevermind for tags, tthat forest table is atrocious.
     
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  16. Iro

    Iro Unidron, Dron, Dron, saca los cuernos al Sol~~

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    With the last board I criticized about it with the no knowledge that his owner was in front of me. I actually laughed a lot and compare the trees with... sexual organs and... well... actually it becomes into something quite embarasing...

    But yes, that board is actually very bad.
     
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  17. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    Those were interplanetario tables? O_o
     
  18. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I need to remind you a few things

    Interplanetario is organised by Esbozos not Corvus Belli, some CB stuff may be part of Esbozos and be in the organisation, but it is the Association's organisation.

    Interplanetario has too many tables for a single club to invest or even have in storage, most tables are donated for the event from other clubs and individuals, many practical things must be taken into account, like transportation and availability of people willing to donate.

    Yes, some tables are not good and some tables raise comments from the first Interplanetario, but, the tables quality is steadily increasing.

    Also, it is important to remember the table meta is not the same in different places, as a joke it was established early on there are two forms of table meta the "Spanish" and the "American", but it does make the point, there is a minimum and maximum table space coverage in Infinity and some of the tables are on the minimum, another thing one can infer from the tables and their layouts is how on some clubs TAGs are not that prevalent.
     
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  19. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Rumble had the same issue. We saw dense tables, sparse tables, tables with long lanes, tables with one open DZ, etc. but lots of adjustments were made to help make them playable.

    A good method is to have players set up the table they bring, but designate half a dozen experienced folks to walk the tables and adjust as necessary, perhaps with a bag full of scatter terrain to add as necessary. The big comment about the Interplanetario tables from my local meta was a lot less scatter terrain (crates, dumpsters, sandbags) than we ordinarily like.

    The risk of a sparse table with long lanes is something I nickname "the tournament phenomenon", where an army that might work with a certain terrain setup will fail depending on bad terrain. It's actually one reason I like competing with PanO... If the table is too open, you can still outshoot the other guy. I think @Teslarod and I have discussed this a lot.
     
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  20. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    Yeah think we came to the conclusion that power curves for a list or matchup can go completely haywire depending on the table.
    Some lists don't give a damn, while others are very reliant on enough terrain density.

    Normally a Swiss HMG is just very good value. On a very dense table that remains true, you can clear AROs reliably, move up and strike important pieces. But on a very sparse table HD still keeps him completely safe while your opponent might struggle to hide anything and you can spend every Order on shooting into the enemy DZ in your own optimal rangebands.
    Some Armies are completely reliant on the table to break up the game into several areas you can utilize with AD, Mech/Forward Deployment, Infiltrators, Movement behind Total Cover, Smoke or Cautious Movement to get into preferable Rangebands. On most of these tables this is only possible with extreme Order expenditure.

    In case you're going first with a 11 order Avatar those open tables aren't even a disadvantage, since you're going to be able to pummel your opponent into submission without ever going near the midfield where Flamethrowers Hackers and CC troops could be a threat. The whole thing completely swings around when you go second and there suddenly is no way to hide your Avatar from a Core Linked Highlander Grey AP HMG.

    The one thing I really like about a list is if it is able to perform consistent regardless of matchup as well as going first or second. These tables seem to be laid out with no concern to firelanes, pathing and Total Cover for S4/S7 or objective structures.
     
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