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Shasvastii on Neoterra!

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by daboarder, Aug 18, 2018.

  1. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    The way I see her using scavenge is against an HMG HI, or something similar, that has wandered too close to the midboard. Hell, she can even reliably take down a TAG (barring it doesn't have a HFT) and loot whatever it had.
     
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  2. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    You cannot loot Multi HMG afaik.
     
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  3. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if someone said this, I didn't read every page but is she part human? I ask because she have the last name Swanson or is that a cover name?
     
  4. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    MHMG and HMRC are indeed non lootable.

    Doesn't stop you half-inching an O-Yoroi's APHMG though.
     
  5. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Certain Shasvaasti (often known as Naish) can remodel themselves to appear human. Speculo Killers and Cadmus are especially capable of this.

    Most people interacting with the Shasvaasti Naish operating under the pseudonym "Aika Swanson" probably aren't aware of her true heritage.
     
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  6. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Or they do, but Hexahedron thinks it has the upper hand, who knows really, we know almost nothing about Swanson except she is behind most recent crisis (Wotan, backdoor, Kurage) and she was identified by Nomads in the conclusion of treason.
     
  7. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    So, even if I lose the mission I win if I make her Really Dead.

    Gotcha!
     
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  8. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    very true, although any tag worth taking doesn't have a multi HMG imo
     
  9. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    I beg to disagree on that.
     
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  10. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Hey man, thats my hot take
    Which TAGs do you feel are "worth it" and bring the multi? The only exception to my rule, I feel, is the squalo. Other than that every other multi toting TAG is either too expensive to be seen in 90 percent of missions or has such a high risk to reward factor they aren't worth it.
     
  11. HeckMeiser

    HeckMeiser Well-Known Member

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    What is it about the multi hmg, the cost?
     
  12. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    From my personal experience: Jotum, Cutter (and Dragao, if we count HMC). Squalo is overshadowed in vanilla, but still viable with HGL. Marut.

    Looking at other factions: I'd certainly use Anaconda and Maghariba, and possibly Avatar, but creating a good support structure for him is more difficult due to the cost.

    Hell, I've also seen or fielded Double TAG lists built around two heavy TAGs. They can do very well.
     
  13. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Sometimes. Here is another one of my hot takes everyone loves, I'll go through each multi HMG wielder and review the TAG

    Marut – clocking in at 116-120pts, 3 SWC, holy fuck that is expensive! MSV2 is nice on a TAG, as that is one of their main issues and this guys main selling points but his stat line is pretty vanilla for a TAG with some extra BTS. compared to the other guns/ ODD wielding badasses in vanilla aleph, its easy to see why this guy doesn't ever get taken. At the end of the day this guy is still weak to the general stuff TAGs are weak to, but pays premium.
    Avatar – The avatar and the Marut are just bizzaro versions of one another, except this guy is even more expensive. I value ODD greater than MSV2, so I guess he gets a point or something. This guy is a HUGE commitment. his stat line is a slightly beefed up TAG stat line but you pay for it. I really don't see this guy a lot because of his massive points sink, and his ability to be hard countered by the match up
    Raicho – This guy got a little bit better with the update, but is still ultimately not that good. sub 100 points gets you a bigger, slightly better heavy infantry with an extra wound. yawn. really nothing special about this guy when you can take a smaller, better, more interesting TAG at a better price point (OVERDRON)
    Maghariba – another big "MEH". and I really do mean BIG this time. this guy will draw every combi rifle, template, AP sniper rifle, and war band pistol ARO on the table with his monstrous foot print. Once again, just a really big heavy infantry that pays too many points for a job that con be accomplished easier, better, faster ,and cheaper.
    Squalo – HGL makes this guy worth it. The multi HMG is whatever. He could have a red fury for all I care and id be happy with him.
    Jotum – really really really expensive for ARM 10. outside of that, he's pretty plain. He doesn't really do anything better than, say, a Swiss guard, other than getting shot. he's great at that. Hope you make your saves! he has similar problems that the cutter has, which I'll get into now:
    Cutter – I actually like this TAG, except, for the faction that its in. Vanilla PanO has the most, and best, TAGs. Ironically, it has some of the worst TAG support in the game. One mediocre killer hacker, no good WB, no good cheap orders, no good infiltrators for repeater coverage, no good deployment zone templates to kill flankers, the list goes on and on.
    Lizard – I don't know, this guy is okay I guess. Just a worse squalo. other TAGs in vanilla nomads are better and more interesting though. he's so middle of the road. big "eh" from me.
    Guija – this guy bites.


    I would too, But he has a regular HMG, not a multi. keep in mind I'm not saying "ALL TAGS ARE BAD", I like TAGs, they're some of my favorite units to take. I'm saying "Multi HMG TAGs are almost always outshined or out performed by their (usually smaller) cheaper, more interesting, varied weaponed brothers"
     
  14. andre61

    andre61 Well-Known Member

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    The only thing I don't like, that she is in a tournament pack, I wish she was in a blaster.
     
  15. nehemiah

    nehemiah Well-Known Member

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    Only the Limited Edition is in the Tournament pack. The regular release will be out a month or two after the conclusion of the season, (so next September), until then using a proxy is fine. I plan on using the Druze Killer Hacker until I can either win or trade for one.
     
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  16. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Some counterpoints:

    Marut's selling point is Strategos L3. It can be a game-winning skill, when used properly. MSV2 helps against one of the most potent TAG counters - Smoke-wielding warbands. Having Marut in SF somewhere in the midfield can frustrate whole enemy plan, if it involved Smoke shenanigans.

    Armor as a stat might be overpriced, but at TAGs level it can be a game changer, especially when combined with STR 3. There's a very big difference between ARM 4 HI and ARM 8 TAG. Especially, if you can identify and eliminate AP and E/M weapons on enemy's side. This is especially true when talking about Jotum. Put him in a good position, and enemy's only chance to dislodge it are crits.

    MHMG is very different from the Red Fury you've mentioned. Better range, AP ammo, and far deadlier ARO are all useful. It is the all-round weapon, designed to work well against all range of targets.

    PanO's support structure is actually far better than most factions. WIP 13 (if you take Machinist without Tech Bee you're doing it wrong) with access to reloads is far more reliable than WIP 13-15 without them. We have one KHD, but it's a very good one - TO Camo really makes the difference. And Repeater coverage is done using Pathfinder+Fugazi swarm, which is also very efficient way to counter enemy camo. If you want cheerleaders than Fusiliers, Auxilia, and 8-point bots work perfectly fine.

    All in all I got the impression you're confusing the roles of Main Battle TAGs and HIs. MBTs have numerous bigger and smaller advantages over HIs, which add up beyond what can be seen at first glance. Increased speed, durability and firepower make them much more universal and tactically flexible, at the cost of having the support structure in place.
     
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  17. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Armor's overpriced until you start making saves. Really though, when you have unit's with effective 5 Wounds before they can be removed from play, Armor is a fantastic stat. The worth of armor increases with every additional Wound/Structure point you have. Remote Presence TAGs are particularly hard to kill, and gain the most from paying for ARM as a result.
     
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  18. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    this is true, but what kills this TAG for me is the other options in the faction. they are better, hands down. In a vacuum the Marut isn't terrible, its when you put him in context with the other characters and units in the army he begins to lose his luster.

    I think ARM is highly over-valued in this game, points wise. Higher wound count is a way better way to increase durability. If I can take 2 or 3 HI for the price of 1 TAG, you bet I'm taking the HI every time. Hell, if they can link, even better.

    while this was mostly a joke, my point is that the Multi HMG isn't what makes the squalo so attractive. its the HGL coupled with a sub 100 points cost and BS15.

    I disagree here, don't get me wrong, I like the Hexa, but his TO is sort of a one trick. if he's caught without it, you can be sure he's dead. he really isn't that great of a hacker, rocking WIP 13 and BTS 0.

    Something like a Jaguar is perfect TAG support, and sadly PanO doesn't have something like that. the closest we have is auxilia, which is okay – but has its own set of problems.

    I mean, lets be real here, the role of a main battle TAG and most heavy infantry are to be tough-as-nails active turn killers. all the benefits of the MBT, the ARM, the multi HMG, ect, its all icing on the cake. it doesn't pro-actively make him that much better in the active turn compared to something like a Stringray series TAG, or an OVERDRON, or even an anaconda. there are diminishing returns on these big TAGs where you're over paying for stat lines you don't actually need.


    And to bring it all around back to our new shasvasti merc, using her as an example, a MBT has no easier time killing her than say something from the stingray series. similarly, on the reverse side, she can eat a MBT almost just as easily as she can shoot apart a HI or a smaller TAG. whether it be from shooting it to pieces with her high burst AP ammo, or tying it up in CC for round after round.
     
  19. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Just to chime in here...
    I definitely would not take two ORCs for the same cost as a Tikbalang. I wouldn't even take two Guarda if they were the same cost as a Tikbalang. TAGs can uniquely do things that Heavy Infantry can't, and I definitely don't think linked heavy infantry are a superior replacement for bringing a TAG. TAGs benefit unique from fast MOV values and big silhouette size, which means they can attack and retreat with ease, and risk taking damage (such as moving through mines) in exchange for expeditious movement. Heavy Infantry can't do that nearly as well.

    I don't think Hacking is defined by stats. When you have a unit with Hidden Deployment/TO Camo, you don't necessarily want high BTS or even super-high WIP, because that inflates the cost by a huge margin. If the Hexa were WIP15/BTS6, I'd take issue with that, because the Hexa should have very precise control over how and when it chooses to engage in Hacking. When you can surprise attack with Redrum and stack those negative modifiers, the assumption is that you're opponent probably isn't landing hits. Similarly, high BTS means non-Hacking Hexa profiles would overpay for a stat they don't really need. So in my mind, the Hexa's pretty ideal for its cost.

    I do agree though that Main Battle TAGs generally need something to incentivize their value. It doesn't have to be much. Just looking at the O-Yoroi, it loses MBT's MULT HMG, but the presence of stealth, a little bit of martial arts, and koalas really makes it an appealing choice. The Cutter, similarly, loses an MBT staple (Heavy Flamethrower) but damn is that thing fun to use. It's also the TAG where I notice the appeal of the MULTI HMG the most... TO Camo with EXP rounds means it projects a huge threat even when it's hiding.

    I also think PanO does a decent job supporting our TAGs. The Hexa KHD's pretty cheap, and it's also a Specialist that can go places most of our troops can't go because we don't have smoke. The Auxilia and Acon Regular Minelayer are a bit pricier than a typical cheerleader, but they also do a better job of protecting a backline. They can project their threat without risking death, which is more than a Galwegian can do. PanO also gets backup gunfighters for cheap, which means the game isn't necessarily over when the TAG runs into trouble. 28 points, 1 SWC for a Kamau HMG is a good purchase. The Bulleteer Spitfire is basically the best cheap aggressive gunfighter in the game. We also have a Mech Deploy Heavy Shotgun/Flamethrower, just in case an opponent wisely decides to keep his head down when he sees a TAG across the table from him.

    PanO's strengths are different from other faction strengths. We just have to leverage the things that make us good. The place where PanO gains order efficiency is how few Orders it takes us to kill things. We may only have 14 Orders compared to an opponent's 19 Orders... We may have no smoke, compared to their 4 Warbands all chucking smoke... But when we pick a F2F roll, we're usually resolving it in 1 or 2 Orders, where other armies may need to spend several Orders to get that Chain Rifle close, or set up that MSV2 smoke shoot, etc.
     
  20. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    I don't think I've ever have my TAG die to ARM rolls.

    Mono, crits, hacking, EM is what makes TAGs less than desirable choice in many situations.

    (so far I have had only 1 game when I could "bully" my opponent with my TAGs ARM value, as his CC specialists and MLs died)