I finally played my first game with my shasvastii last night and did very well, But I can't call is a real win because it was against a new player. I can see a using a standard 5 man link is a bit of a waste with them. I'm curious whats everyone's favorite unit combos. Below are what I've seen so far, but can use some more feedback from more experience players. Anti-MSV: I tried looking to a way of getting Sheskin & Victor (white noise) in a link together. The easy way is to put in a Nox/Tensho and have a small Core. I was hoping to add some ODD to make it my main punching unit with a couple attack options, but I don't think its worth it to add in a Cutthroat sub-machine gun (haris) to the 2 characters. Especially when Gwailos has HMG & Albedo. The only real reason to go with Victor&Sheskin over a Gwailos is the fact it still works as an anti-MSV unit on turn 2. Whats everyone's preference for anti-MSV tactics. Cutthroats: I loved the Red Fry profile, easily the MVP of my first game. The biggest drawback is the Frenzy. I don't think its worth using a harris of these guys, but a duo. I'm looking at the wild card options, and Shaskin & Hasht don't pair well with him if you want to use the redfury as your point gun. It's a bit of a waste to put Messer because the white noise blocks the Cutthroats LoS. I never thought I'd which a model didn't have MSV. I'm fairly certain CB designed the cutthroats to have odd link options. The Harris gun is Meh and become a tax, and the wildcards just don't pair well in a duo. Right now I think the Redfury & Submachine gun make the best duo. Infiltrating button pushing: I see a couple options, Seed-soldiers (cheapest), Aida (meh), Caliban (a bit pricey, but more than just button pushing),Malignos (too expensive to have button pushing as primary role), Shrouded (safe). If looking for a button pusher, I took the seed soliders because it was cheap, but I can see how the seed-embryo rules can get annoying and to manually hatch eats and order. I failed 3 consecutive hatch aros with them. The Shrouded is more points but, more order efficient. Dazer: I didn't try this yet, but I double checked the rules and if I'm not mistaken it effects you as well as your opponent. If playing a Tag, I would take these guys since it can ignore it and you a safe zone. But after that I'm not sure I like the dazer. Maybe if you play a dazer profile with a second Malignos\shrouded FO near and objective. Perhaps spamming them in a zone of control scenario would work. I'm not sold on the Dazer. Its little annoying that the gwailos is not multi-terrain, because the M-Drones are. It would make for a nice combo with that harris fireteam. The New Sheskin is out and has Multi-terrain, but not sold on it. Anti-Deployables (mines, Crazy Koallas): The Cadmus is perfect for this. Do people have a preferred profile. I'm leaning to boarding shotgun due to cost and the fact that its so easy to get close to enemies. As an attacker I find the seed-embryo rules a little annoying since you need to waste orders to reveal, but the chest mines are a fun option. Aro pieces: I'm not sure of the Haiduks, with so many nanoscreens available is sapper worth it. If the marksman profile had Forward deployment L1 then I would look into it. I do like the idea of suppressing fire with them (Cover+SF+Mimitism). I've had bad luck with Solo Snipers, so I don't really play them. I find there are too many linked HI HMGs turn one to be reliable. The Noctifier ML is legendary for its 'wait for it' tactics, waiting just for the right moment to reveal and kill 2-3 models. The Q-drone is probably one of the best TR bots since it has mimitsm. When I play I tend to either put a LOT of AROs or none. I think in Shas I'll run the Noctifier and hide the rest.
Anti-MSV Gwailos + FTO bots is pretty oppressive against MSV. You Move/Idle and force them to react to your bots. You can then shoot them unopposed while they either dodge or trade with your bot. You're pretty happy with both scenario, and can simply repair the bot if needed. Sheskiin can also just brute-force most ARO pieces, especially if she's linked. --- Cutthroats I haven't tried those yet, but they seem to be pretty pricey. They do have great equipment, great skills, but Sha is filled with strong stuff and I'm not sure I'd take a Jayth over some of the option offensive options. --- Infiltrating button pushing Shrouded are good stuff, they're well priced and camo, they get the job done. I'm really fond of the Dazer (which I'll touch on on the next part). Malignos, are pricier, but in a mission like Show of Force, where you can just steal the win on the last turn, they're definately a consideration. Seed soldiers are dirt cheap, but they do not get to keep their camo while they move around the table, so if they are on a mission where they need to move, they're at a disadvantage compared to the other choices. Caliban are very pricey, but vs the right matchup they can really punch way above their point cost. If you can squeeze Protheion value out of them, they can def be worth their price. I'd consider a single CoC if playing a very aggressive Sheskiin. --- Dazer YES PLEASE. Those are insane, you can force your opponent to wastes so many orders by placing them correctly. As soon as they reach them they stop, this can def throw off their order math and ruin their day. Most of our midfield troopers also have multiterrain, which can make this equipment very one sided. Not only this, but they highly synergizes with our Noctifers. The Saturation zone doesn't affect us (we're already B1), but affects them. --- Cadmus I'd also consider just taking the cheapest one, it comes in close to your opponent so it has the best gun for it imo and being cheaper is always a good thing. --- ARO Pieces When it comes to ARO piece, due to the dynamic of the active turn high burst vs reactive turn low burst -and- the active turn player controlling the rangeband, I tend to favor a different playstyle. I personally have a very polarizing view of ARO pieces... If they're standing, they're going to die. If your opponent kill one of your classic standing ARO piece, they either have a terrible list or are already losing the game. Very few typical ARO pieces are worth running in the game imo (Kamau is pretty okay), but Sha doesn't really shine in that department. The entire purpose of your reaction turn game is to delay your opponent, and we got great option for those... Dazers: as discussed previously, they can be a headache for your opponent and waste them multiple order, they're better "ARO" than more ARO. Camo and mines: marker state forces your opponent to waste orders discovering, it's guaranteed order advantage. Taigha: they're cheap, they got high FTF roll targets (16), and if they win their FTF, they crawl closer, drop chain rifle and cause a nightmare for your opponent. They're great "ARO" pieces. Speculo (especially minelayer): Marker state, mines, right in their face. Impersonators are always annoying to deal with, even more so when they start with a mine in the middle of your fireteam. I've seen people take half of their order pool trying to manage a impersonator, if that's not a great ARO piece, idk what is. Noctifer: Aw yeah. Those are good. The better you are at positioning them, the better they are. They synergize with that passive ARO game mentality SO well. If your opponent doesn't have anything to shoot, they'll want to move. If they're moving, they're probably going to end up making a mistake. If you place your Noctifer in a way that you can only see slices of terrain, if your opponent decides to Mov-Mov and you only catch their second move, they get deleted. If they are stranded in the middle of the table die to your dazers and are slow-crawling out of cover, they might get deleted. If they manage to shoot you, and you got your dazers to synergize with you, this actually gives you a pretty good odds at winning a ARO FTF. If they play sectorial, and you can clip multiple targets at the same time, you could simply win the game on the spot. They're extremely good at punishing, if you use them carefully and outwit your opponent, they can be game changing. --- Taigha I think I need to add a mention to them. They're passively insane. Dropping them on the table forces your opponent on terrible situation, especially if you are playing a big gunner like Sheskiin or the Gwailos. Your opponent is probably going to be forced to put up 1-2 SWC ARO piece to deal with your Taigha (which I discussed previously about how bad I think this is). This allows your big gunner to mow them down and essentially trade your Taighas for SWC (usually pricey) pieces. If your opponent decides to be clever and hide everything, you get to move 24 inches with your Taigha... On a 12 inches deployment map (short deployment zones), you are now at 36 inches with a trooper that has a 9" long template. Needless to say, they're in trouble. Even if your opponent leaves some ARO up, with the high FTF roll target of the Taigha, you're probably keeping some alive. They'll soak some of your opponent's active turn order, and might even crawl up to them and kill some stuff. You can take quite a few of them for the price you'd pay for an average trooper, but they bring a lot of upsides.
Cool trick.. consider it stolen. I didn't say anything before because it i had to run and the post was already fairly long, So far I think their cheap and mean, but easily eaten to AROs. I had to cancel most of their impetuous orders because they just would have run into easy aros. My closest experience to anything similar to them where Ghazis, but they play very differently. With ghazis using their 2 orders is enough because they are best used defensively. For Taighas, I think using four in a coordinated Mov-Mov without trying to avoid AROS is worth it. Even if only 2/4 survive getting into striking range it's worth it. If they can Mov-CC afterwards its worth it. They're basically missiles. as long as you can trade 4x5points for 30+ points its worth it. you just have to watch out for a decent aro pieces. I can't argue with that mentality. when I spam aro pieces I tend to use cheap pieces. In haqq Daylami are the best for it. In other lists I'll have a 5 man link with a sniper rifle (DBS with MSV2 brawler sniper), and plan on abandoning him and reform with a 6th linkable model. I may try starter model in a defensive fireteams. I don't think Shasvastii have anything that would qualify as disposable ARO pieces. I guess the Dazer is their equivalent of speedbumps.
I would not generally spend an order to cancel Taigha impetuous. If they die, they die. They've already done their job making something worth more than them stand up in the open to oppose them, and it's probably going to die for that choice. Generally that's a good trade. Some of the Taigha may live anyway (they dodge pretty well) and it doesn't take many to get through to give your opponents headaches. Shrouded are necessary at times but I don't see them as well priced. Compare them to a zero and I'm not sure what's worth the 6 ish extra points I pay.
+1 BS and the Shasvastii rule is pretty good in area control missions... but the automedkit is overpriced, I think. OTOH, coordinated AMK is a thing.
You place your own dazers, you should be able to tailor their location to help you out. The units that link with Sheskiin are not multi-terrain. Sheskiin wants to gun on every order that she can. Even if she can only Move->Shoot, it shouldn't affect her that much. She also keeps her cover while in the open. I personally think heavy Sheskiin is terrible option over the regular Sheskiin. With heavy Sheskiin... You gain Multiterrain (fine) You gain some CC potency (did you really need more? you basically already delete anything in CC) You gain 3 armor while in cover (that's nice) You lose 12 points You lose 1 SWC You lose 3 vis mod while out of cover You become Hackable (Heavy Sheskiin as a sick model, use that proxy rule!) I don't even think I'd take that trade even if it was the same cost. Sheskiin is a active turn piece and being able to get your vis mod at any point on the table is much better than getting 3 armor when you lose your FTF imo. You becoming Hackable makes it so people don't even need to interact with you against your strengths (BS15, CC24, PH15) and can just prey on your WIP13 and do it unopposed. Add to that those absurd point increases (SWC is a premium in Sha, if there is ever a sectorial that would take a SWC increasing LT, it's them imo)
Yeah each to their own but I can't see me taking her HI option in Shas. Maybe in vanilla where you have access to more cheap orders
My LGS had the same argument about sheskin. I prefer Little Shesh over Big Shesh. I lost track of how many tiese I've had to abort an attack plan because I was losing cover and about 26 inches ways from a target, that little extra let's you charge an HMG with confidence. Different topic, I just had a game and my Cutthroat just did amazingly. LitttleShesh and Victor lay dead to a Marut after taking on more than they could chew. The cutthroat in the open, ODD was useless. Decided to show why it was called a cutthroat. Turns to face Marut, walks directly towards him only getting glancing blows with his red fury. Walks again at Marut dodging the flame thrower. Just keeps moving closer to marut, slowing down just enough to dodge the flame thrower. When finally in CC he pulls out his CCW and easily crits, cutting the throat of marut putting my opponent in Loss of Lt. Being the last man with a spine left in the army (camo mentor, 2x ikatrons, 2x Nox, and a remote), decides to move toward empty armoury, taking out 2 more of maruts support troops. Hiding in cover was not an option anymore. (End of turn 2). While recoordinating and the loss of Marut, a Dasyus (TO KHD Combi) TRIED to make a shot at the cutthroat, but died in the process. (Top turn three done) with both side out of specialist to open the door of the armoury, the cut throat gets creative. Uses his trusty DA CCW to break down the door to claim the armoury.
I just tried the gwailo, m-drone & Victor haris in a list and I think I prefer it over any of the sheshkin trio options. More versatile play options. Having a 6-4 repeater in the same fire team as Victor really gives him a huge area to cover. The only problem is that everything is hackable. But the entire fire team is nanoscreened which has it's advantages.
Thoughts and Prayers? ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 SHESKIIN Lieutenant Red Fury, Pulzar, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (2 | 66) GWAILO (Multispectral Visor L2) Heavy Rocket Launcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 43) M-DRONE FTO (Nanoscreen) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 23) MALIGNOS Hacker (EI Killer Hacking Device) Submachine Gun, Dazer, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 33) NOCTIFER Missile Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 32) CALIBAN (Chain of Command) Submachine Gun, Pulzar, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife, CC Weapon. (0 | 29) SHROUDED (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID (Journalist L1) Submachine Gun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22) SLAVE DRONE Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) SEED-SOLDIER Combi Rifle, D.E.P. / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16) R-DRONE Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 5.5 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Just wanted your thoughts on this - not a shas player, but just thinking about possible lists that you could run... I feel that everytime I build a shas list - I always come back to a limited insertion format unintendedly - at most with a 2nd group with some flash bots + taighas.
I'm a relatively new player in general but I have only 2 games in with Shas. Can anyone help me out with a good way to build a Sphinx list?
I personally think the Cutthroats are amazing and having both Sheskin and a Gwailo is overkill. I've been leaning towards an anti MSV-trio with Victor messer & Sheskin or Gwailo(non-msv), and then a Cuthroat (in a separate duo). Its generally cheaper, leaves you more room to fit in other tool kit options. Here is my current 'starter', I'm still figuring our my preferred toolkit options. Shasvastii Expeditionary Force ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 6 VICTOR MESSER (Hacking Device Plus) Boarding Shotgun, 2 Nanopulser, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 28) GWAILO HMG / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (2 | 45) M-DRONE FTO (Nanoscreen) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 23) MENTOR Lieutenant Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22) JAYTH CUTTHROATS 2 Chain Rifle, E/M Grenades, E/Mauler / Pistol, DA CC Weapon, Knife. (0 | 22) JAYTH CUTTHROATS Red Fury, E/M Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon, Knife. (1 | 35) GROUP 2 2 3 3 IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) 2 Light Flamethrowers, Flash Pulse / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (0 | 9) TAIGHA Chain-colt / AP + Shock CCW. (0 | 5) TAIGHA Chain-colt / AP + Shock CCW. (0 | 5) TAIGHA Chain-colt / AP + Shock CCW. (0 | 5) 3.5 SWC | 208 Points Open in Infinity Army I would look at the following, Victor messer for white noise, to take out any MSV units, Dazer minelayers to slow downs anyone without multi-terrain, This gives you a zone only your infiltrators & tags can move freely. Killer hacker because you want to defend your tag from hacking and you need a button pusher. Nox as chearleaders and a fireteam for Victor. Spoiler: Sphinx List Shasvastii Expeditionary Force ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 SPHINX Spitfire, 2 Heavy Flamethrowers / EXP CCW. (2 | 106) SCINDRON Flash Pulse / Knife. (0 | 0) SHROUDED Hacker (EI Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) SHROUDED (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Dazer / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) SHROUDED (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Dazer / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24) CADMUS-SOLDIER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. (0 | 21) VICTOR MESSER (Hacking Device Plus) Boarding Shotgun, 2 Nanopulser, D-Charges / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 28) NOX (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Zapper / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 15) NOX Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Nimbus plus) / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 17) NOX Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Zapper / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14) NOX HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 21) 4.5 SWC | 297 Points Open in Infinity Army
I've had a lot of sucess comboing a Dazer with an FA sogarat in Vanilla. Sog is insanely resilient, and the combination of slightly better than HMG range, BS mods and Burst mods means the opponent needs to spend way more orders to shift it. I can see it working with Haiduks and Noctifers as well, but losing that extra wound makes a difference. One cool thing about dazers is that they severely devalue fireteams in ARO. Going from Burst 2 to Burst 1 is way worse than going from Burst 5 to 4, so you can say, fire with a Gwailio or Shesdelicious in a 3-man team while your opponent is most likely now stuck with a sub-par ARO piece. Really loving dazers, I think they make one of the most interesting addition to the CA arsenal.
Sheshkin Vs Gwailos: I had this discussion last weekend, and if you compare them 1-1 sheshkin wins. But in context of list building does anyone think the Gwailos is better? I personally find the Gwailos a bit better, just because I love the Cutthroat red fury... Ok I may have lost some people... Because I like the cutthroat RF, I want him in my lists, and the best thing to duo him with is victor (the other cutthroats just don't interest me). Because victor is not available anymore, Sheshkin-Victor-Nox fireteam is gone. This leaves the Sheshkin-nox-nox to compare to the Gwailos with either 1 or 2 M-Drones. I personally like the fact that the M-Drones are specialist and have repeaters to extend Victors area of control. in general I like 2 high B guns in my lists, and one being ODD, the other being anti MSV is a bonus. I'm also thinking of running the E-Drone (Evo) just for the Exile. I think its worthwhile breaking the Haris to suppressing fire the M-Drones FTO. If placed well you get the bonuses and can deny any fireteams cover since they could be isolated via repeater from the E-Drone if they get too close.
While the shotgun has a bit of potential, I'm just not a fan of ODD getting into direct template range. I find the chain-rifle profile a complete waste. Its only reason to exist is to be the cheapest profile to duo. But the Red Fury profile, it's a work of art.
