Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Magno, Feb 14, 2018.
edit: Another idea. Shas take on Hungries. Mimetism, Chain Rifle, Biolocator.
Getting a little wishlisty, but thats okay :)
I can see Seed Soldiers getting a little Metro-ish / Kurgatish / Sergeantish. Linkable basic core troops but with a bunch of specialist options that include infiltration and camo and whatnot at the expense of not being linkable.
Would like to see some sort of mini-speculo... Inferior Impersonation or Impersonation Level X, so like maybe they only start in Imp-2 and can't get back into it, but its at a much reduced cost and is an alternative form of infiltration.
I'd also like to see the Caliban get a bunch of stuff - one of my favourite Shas models, by far. I use him as a Malignos in my Onyx.
Also - Sensors and Sniffers. Let them be both Camo and Anti-Camo without just whacking visors on things.
I also will not be sad if Morphoscan is completely overhauled/removed - super, super situational.
It'll probably just get replaced with Protheon L1 or something.
What if Morpho-Scan is an automatic ability that happens whenever you use a CC attack against someone? That sounds neat enough.
I've been thinking about basic Infantry for Shas. How would we want them set up and how many points?
I think something like base profile of 11 BS and no armor, limited camouflage, combi rifle, and spawn-embryo ofc. Where would that place us, like 13 points? Maybe place CC and PH at sub-10 for some point reduction.
One thing I think would be awesome for shas is the following skill, kinda like how plants work in the Batman Miniature Game:
For every miniature in the army list with this rule, the controller may deploy a seed marker anywhere in his deployment zone. Seed markers are camo markers for all intents and purposes, with the only exception being their only possible action or ARO is Hatch. If the miniature has the infiltration special rule, its seed marker may be placed anywhere in the controller's side of the battlefield, but never in the enemy's side.
Seed markers are regular, generate orders as normal, and may be targeted as normal. Seed markers have 2 wounds, ARM 1 and BTS 3.
By spending one regular order or ARO, a seed marker may hatch into any model of the army list that has the seed soldier rule but has not been placed on the game table yet. Hatch is part of a move order, so it may be combined with other skills, including surprise shot or surprise strike.
This would make Shas the kings of mobility and positioning, and a very unpredictable yet fun army, I think
Really like that idea but it doesn't really fit the notion of Line Infantry is all. As an alternate option (ala. metros with limited camo) that you pay a few extra points for, yeah that'd be kinda awesome.
I like them having Combi-Shotgun, I'd like that to remain as is.
as for morpho scan... dunno what'll happen there. I just hope they dont all just get protheon L1 or something, that'd be boring.
Well, I think it was confirmed somewhere that Seeds are gonna stop being our basic duders and become... Something else. So if @DaRedOne is talking about Seed Soldiers specifically, it sounds really cool. Give it to Seed-Soldiers, Caliban, Gwailo, Cadmus and maybe Aswang.
I think that version of Seed could be extremely cool for Shas.
The Combi-Shotgun is cool and all, but it's a steep price to pay for our backliners. Seed-Soldiers as of now are quite expensive imo for what they do, and they even were that when the Seed was S2 still. I'd like to see a basic infantry down at around maybe 11 points for the basic loadout... Or allow Shas to use Imetrons, as we already need to buy the Imetron-Ikadron pack to get the Ikadron.
Shas news (Or lack of news)
Bostria made a pre-recorded video for the Rumble this weekend where Shas came up again.
In what is probably the clearest statement yet, he said (These are not direct quotes, I'm just summarising) that the master design of Shas, aesthetically, has not been made and won't be until after Interplanetary this year. He stressed that this design is what every miniature will take design cues from, meaning that Shas will not be reworked until 2019 at the earliest.
It may not be this year, but they've got a plan at least, eh?
That's nice. Then it sounds like mechanically at least they have an idea for Shas, so the rules should be pretty fine if it's only aesthetics that are holding them up.
OTOH, I hope it's mostly details like clothing and weapons that are the issue here. Them not being able to find any aesthetics makes it sound like they are gonna look completely different, which worries me a bit. I want at least my other Shas to at least fit in beside them and not look like two completely different species.
I'd be really happy if more Shas begin looking like the Noctifiers, Gwailos and the Shrouded with the cape.
Alright so, I've been thinking about what Shas does need to be a functioning sectorial, in my opinion.
First of is the obvious "Fix Line Infantry", which has been discussed already.
Aside from that.. There are two things a Sectorial offers differently from vanilla: AVA and Fireteam. Now, Shas has some very natural issues with fireteams given that they wish to hide a bit. Seeds are not a good link for a few reasons, such as few loadouts, and that they can't link until they hatch which costs you a command token and you cant use them turn one. Gwailos are fine, but sluggish. I've never tried Caliban. So we need something new in the fireteam department imo, or they must make the AVA of the units involved worth it by itself.
Personally I don't think fireteams should be the reason to play Shas, so I'd say the AVA should be pretty good and make some unique profiles / SWC discount for units.
Next up: a Linebreaker other than the Sphinx would be nice. Now, don't get me wrong, the Sphinx is amazing, but I would want someone else that could push, but not a HI. Gwailo can, sure, but they're slow. I'm thinking something similar to the Gwailos, with maybe Seed rule, then Mimetism, Nanoscreen and Forward Deployment, and cq loadouts like Spitfires, Shotguns and Assault Pistols. MI, Arm 2, Mov 4-4. Probably slightly expensive.
And finally... Whenever I build Shas lists these days, most of the list isn't Shas. I get two Ikadrons, a Medchanoid with his slaves and one or two Drones. While this is fine as such, it would be fun to see Shas get options that could compete with some of those in themselves. The Drones I can get, byt how about a Doctor? Or is that too un-Shas? And how about some cheap order-generators / units wielding direct templates? I think light flamethrowers would fit quite well somewhere.
Oh, and more Lt options. Right now there's only really the Aswang. And maybe a sensor somewhere.
As for things Shas don't need...
I really don't think we need an actual HI. Especially not one with 2 wounds. That's just not the Shas way. Nor do I think we need MSV if we can get some sensor ir cheap templates. Especially not MSV2+. I could possibly accept MSV1 on some units, maybe a third Haiduk loadout with Multi Sniper and MSV1?
And ambush camouflage. I mean, come on. That should be a Shas thing, shouldn't it?
This was a long and ranty post, but I'm just trying to speculate around what we can expect to get. What do you guys think? Agree or disagree with me?
Definite disagree, yes you have a lot of camo markers but at the end of the day they are all just varying shades of "poor armour and has an aversion to shock rounds". A shrouded is a malignos with worse camo, an aswang is a shrouded that likes eating line troopers, all BS 12, all under armour 3
At the moment I play generic YJ and the mix of Guilang, Daofei and Ninjas (which I frequently deploy in camo L1 to add to the confusion) is far more appealing than SEF as my opponents don't know what each marker is capable of and they have a divergent range of capabilities.
A camo HI which could perform a linebreaking role is in my opinion exactly what SEF need.
IMO at the moment there are two reasons to run SEF at the moment:
2x Speculo killer *sigh*
a Gwalios link team
Other than those do you really need that 4th shrouded? you can take Noctifers and Malignos in the same AVA in Onyx and everything else you could just play generic anyway where you can have 2 aswangs, 2 shrouded, a sphinx a malignos and a noctifer but with vastly better options for going and taking something, and the Anathematic as a little cherry on top.
Shas have no staying power, nano screens are cool but better basic armour with 2W and actual cover is better.
I basically agree with on all points: most profiles of Shas are the same with minor tweaks. Cadmus, Speculos and Gwailos are the only ones that differ in any way, and there are no actual good reasons to play Shas.
However, I would like to see Shas get some way to break lines that is not a 2W ARM5 HI for 50-60 points. That's the area of expertise for Morats. Actually, even if they give him psuedo-2W by giving him NWI and Immunity I'd be more happy. I think there should be a way to make a competent line-breaker that's still not a HI. Morats don't have any Camo units, right? If they can manage without Camo when I think Shas can manage without HI.
Of course, if we do get a TO Infiltrating 2W HI, I'd still be happy since we finally got something, but it feels like that would be lost potential on some truly interesting unit.
I guess I just wanna see a unit with TO Camo and Nanoscreen.
Who said it needs to be a Arm5, S5 monster. Make it an Arm3 sneaky dude with climbing plus, infiltration and TO Camo and it fits the Shas theme while also giving vanilla CA a nice tool.
What I don't think Shas needs is Line Infantry. Make it an army of tricksy, crazy, slightly bizarre units so it truly feels alien. The only reason MAF feels different than most human armies is the whole 'Ignore almost all Morale effects' they have, so they at least play different than human armies.
Shas should be the same. They shouldn't just be another camo heavy army, humans have that, They should have some sort of alien-sy concept. I like the idea of everybody getting shock immunity and a medikit, but that's still not alien, just good.
Noctifers are on the "we love the model its not being resculpted" list. So presumably the new design will take cues from that. Probably means Hasht and Haiduks are okay too since they look similar
I expect Shas to get a few protheon units. One good example might be a vampire warband - mimetism, fast movement, hyperdynamics, protheon L2 or L3, maybe even V:Dogged, pulzars and assault pistols. Give them frenzy rather than impetuous - they feed and they go nuts.
I expect any Shasvastii "linebreaker" type units would be the kinds with advance deployment, AD, infiltration, impersonation... or just something like a Samaritan.
Maybe they'll just secede.
They can become Tohaa and advance their genetics/evolution/survival with access to Symbiont Armour.
Give em holo :)
Holo Level X: Civilian Impersonation. Grants the Imp-2 marker state.
With all the usual drawbacks of holoprojector, and without the other benefits of impersonation.