Shakush - Post Your List

I'm not going to lie - I had quite similar feelings when I first saw the new Steel Phalanx TAG's profile... But I've learned the hard way that there's more to a model's performance than their raw stats/point cost/special rules, and I'm not only talking about the meta of the game, but also about the fact that the list building process and considerations involved in it are way different from Faction to Faction! After talking with our Steel Phalanx expert, I have a sneaking feeling that the Shakush slots into the RTF list building way better than the Agamemnon slots into the SP's - the future shall be the judge of this assesment! :D

Oh and one more thing - the Agamemnon does have Religious Troop (unlike the Shakush!), and as TAGs often tend to risk reactive turn engagements with the idea of failing Guts into total Cover once they start taking hits, this is no small drawback! Yes, you can always force the Religious Troop into failing Guts via the use of a Command Token, but that's yet another drain on the player's resources, no matter how you look at the situation...

 

Good day,

A long time for me without accessing the forum.

I did use of this list thinking on squeeze the ITS extra for some rems. Shakush plus Rafiq (FTO) works really fine togheter, now they put 4 orders to the main group, yes, only for duos to use, but you can expend 4, 5 orders to kill or push buttons, then you can go back or even put both in supressive fire. When the enemy finish to deal with one duo, you probably still have the other one with a decent orders pool.


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GRUPO 1 9 3
GHULAM (Teniente) Fusil, Escopeta Ligera / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 11)
GHULAM (Médico [+3]) Fusil, Escopeta Ligera ( | MediKit) / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 15)
LEILA SHARIF (Hacker) Fusil de Precisión Shock, Minas E/M, Cargas-D / Pistola Breaker, Arma CC. (0 | 20)
GHULAM Fusil, Escopeta Ligera / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 11)
ZHAYEDAN Lanzamisiles / Pistola, Arma CC. (1.5 | 28)
CAZABESTIAS FTO (Minador) Lanzallamas Pesado, Panzerfaust, Minas AP / Pistola, Arma CC DA. (0 | 9)
SHAKUSH Ametralladora, Lanzallamas Pesado / Arma CC AP. (1.5 | 58)
PILOTO SHAKUSH Escopeta Ligera / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 0)
SHAKUSH Ametralladora, Lanzallamas Pesado / Arma CC AP. (1.5 | 58)
PILOTO SHAKUSH Escopeta Ligera / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 0)
REMOTO RAFIQ FTO Red Fury, Pulso Flash / Arma CC PARA(-3). (0.5 | 20)
REMOTO RAFIQ FTO Red Fury, Pulso Flash / Arma CC PARA(-3). (0.5 | 20)

GRUPO 2 2 2
REMOTO FANOUS Pulso Flash / Arma CC PARA(-3). (0 | 7)
NASMAT Arma CC PARA(-3). (0 | 3)
MONSTRUCKER Subfusil, Chain Rifle, Drop Bears / Pistola, Arma CC. (0 | 12)
WARCOR (Visor 360º) Pulso Flash ( ) / Pistola Aturdidora, Arma CC PARA(-3). (0 | 3)
YARA HADDAD Fusil de Precisión AP / Pistola Pesada(+1R), Arma CC. (0 | 25)

5.5 CAP | 300 Puntos

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I just played a tournament over the weekend and I brought a Shakush for Biotechvore. It drew some fire on turn one. Provided adequate AROs and then was just points in a zone for turn 3.

WIP BioT
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GROUP 1 8 2 3
ASAWIRA AP Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (1.5 | 39)
RAFIQ REMOTE Rifle, Light Shotgun, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 14)
SHAKUSH Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Flamethrower / AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 58)
SHAKUSH PILOT Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
MUKHTAR (Multispectral Visor L2) Red Fury, Nanopulser(+1B) ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 36)
SALADIN (Lieutenant [+1 Command Token]) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser(+1B) / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 36)
DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14)
DIGGER Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades / Pistol, AP CC Weapon(+1B). (0 | 14)
FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
KUM Rifle, Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
GROUP 2 1 5 3
NADHIR (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, Flammenspeer / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
ZULEYKA Light Flamethrower(+1B), Smoke Grenades / Breaker Pistol(+2B), EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 12)
ZAMIRA Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
KUM Light Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 7)
DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
DAYLAMI (Camouflage [1 Use], Infiltration) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 8)
4 SWC | 299 Points
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Playing both RTF and CJC, I can't help but compare the Shakush to the Gecko (I know, comparing units across armies is a dark path, but here we go...)
Stats - CC 17, BS 14, and WIP 14 gives this to Shakush (Gecko has AVA 4... but frankly that is madness)

Skills/Gear - both have all the standard stuff (Tac Aware, lowered dodge and gizmo), Gecko has ECM -6 and Terrain(0G) which is esp. good in ITS14, but Shakush has courage... call this a draw
Note: counting Gecko's extra +1 Damage with weapons later

Weapons - this one's interesting:
Primary: while the Shakush looks clearly better (AP Spitfire/HMG vs. Multi-Marksman/Mk12), the Gecko's +2 Dam (vs. Sha's +1 Dam) mostly balances out you wind up comparing a Dam 14 AP Spifire vs. a Dam 15 AP (or Shock) MMR. Similarly Dam 15 HMG vs. Dam 17 Mk12 with one less shot as very close. Even with the HMG's extra shot, this does to the Gecko.
Secondary: Shakush's H Flamer beats Gecko's Chainrifle every day... Shakush win
Tertiary: Well... this one's a gimme since the Shakush doesn't have one, but the Gecko's Panzerfaust or Blitzen is an awesome weapon with good range and fear factor... undeniable win for Gecko
CC: Shakush wins this one I guess with an AP CC vs. a plain CC (and higher CC skill), but frankly if either of these guys gets into CC something's gone wrong...

Cost - Gecko's the winner her, by only a few points (as little as 2pts. for the "good" one) but also wins on SWC: 1 (and an option for 0.5) vs. the Shakush's 1.5... though this may more an indication that the Gecko is undercosted considering it gets Dam 15 MMR, Dam 15 Chainrifle (IIRC) and Dam 16 Panzerfaust?!? Get that TAG a baggage bot!

Linkteams - Gecko wins here again, being able to haris with not only it's brothers, also a ton of useful wildcards from hackers (for protection) to engineers (for fixing) to Sr. Massacre (for cover and CC) While the Shakush has lots of duo options there aren't that many that are great... Fasid is somewhat redundant, and expensive, Maggie even more so. None of the wildcards synergize well (even Leila can really only dare your opponent to try to hack the Shakush, not really defend it) and worst of all none of them is an Engineer to fix the Shakush back up :( About the best choice is the Rafiq for the hacker-net coverage and extra Tac order for getting around (and it's general cheapness)

So that's where I usually wind up. Having both armies if I'm looking to play a "mini-TAG" the Gecko wins every time (IMHO). So I never wind up fielding a Shakush... I either go big with the Maggie, or keep it small with troops and remotes.

 

"Weapons - this one's interesting:
Primary: while the Shakush looks clearly better (AP Spitfire/HMG vs. Multi-Marksman/Mk12), the Gecko's +2 Dam (vs. Sha's +1 Dam) mostly balances out you wind up comparing a Dam 14 AP Spifire vs. a Dam 15 AP (or Shock) MMR. Similarly Dam 15 HMG vs. Dam 17 Mk12 with one less shot as very close. Even with the HMG's extra shot, this does to the Gecko."


I think you got the Shakush weapons wrong:
Shakush has HMG Dam 16 or AP Spitfire Dam 15
Gecko has MMR Dam 15 or MK12 Dam 17

 

You can't really compare the Shakush HMG to a Gecko, as there's no comparable Gecko loadout.

I agree that the Shakush AP Spitfire compares really unfavourably to the Gecko MMR - they have basically identical primary weapons, and the Gecko has so much else for 2 points less. It's one of the reasons I'm not very impressed with the Shakush's AP Spitfire profile. The HMG is the interesting Shakush IMO.

 

Like people have already said, cross factional comparisons lead to madness. The Shakush works for Haqqislam as it gives us a relatively durable BS 14 heavy weapon platform for cheap. The HMG is really useful as it gives us a long range bully unit that can lose a couple of FtF and still be effective. The AP Spitfire can be seen as a beefed up Asawira (with additional limitations).

I just want to say that BS 14 is so nice when you have been used to having BS 12/13.

 

I disagree with this. Cross-factional comparison can be taken too far, but in moderation, they're one of the useful tools for evaluating a faction's strengths and weaknesses, which helps us make strategic decisions.

In particular, I think it's useful to note that the Shakush AP Spitfire is a bit overcosted for what it does. That doesn't mean you can't take it, it just means that if you do, it should be because you want an AP Spitfire badly enough to be willing to pay a premium for it. You're less likely to want to do that in Vanilla or HB where you have the extraordinarily cheap Asawira to fill that role. Either way, by all means run it, just do it knowing that in doing so you're not playing to your faction's strengths.

The comparison between the HMG and Agamemnon is also relevant, just much less stark. The Shakush is 4 points cheaper than Agamemnon, which is significant, even though you give up a lot for those 4 points. Whereas the Gecko is both better and cheaper than the Shakush AP Spitfire.

 

While I understand where you are coming from, I believe that some cross-factional comparison can unfortunately lead to missing some nuance. It feels like it can lead to a habit of focusing on what your faction does not have instead of appreciation for all that you do have. Sure Agamemnon looks great, but the Shakush is good enough for the role that Haqqislam needs. You don't always need the best hammer, just need a decent hammer. For me, the biggest thing against the AP Spitfire Shakush is not the MMR Gecko, but the Asawira. A factions internal balance seems more vital to me than comparing it externally. The AP Shakush is probably fine in RTF and has a role.

But like you said, it is about moderation. We probably just slightly disagree about level of its usage.

 

I agree with all this. I would add that the only point of identifying your faction's weaknesses is to improve your strategy by focusing on leveraging your faction's strengths and finding ways to mitigate its weaknesses. My biggest frustration with cross-faction comparisons is when they instead turn into pointless internet whining about desired changes to the game. But as long as we can avoid that urge, I still think they have strategic value.

An example: I never really looked much at the Hawwa hacker, it seemed kind of an expensive and boring profile... but when I did a cross-faction comparison, it turned out that it actually compares really favourably to other factions' skirmisher hackers. It gave me a new appreciation for the profile.

Similarly, the Rafiq rifle+lsg isn't very sexy, but a cross-faction comparison shows that it's actually pretty incredible. Since realizing that, I've included it in every list (even before it got to Duo) and have been very happy with its performance.

 

This discussion has made me reconsider the Shakush quite a bit. I was quick to dismiss it over Maggie or a linked Zhayaden HMG. But there is definitely something to be said for a super-tough BS14 Dam16 HMG w/ Mov 6-2...

 

cross faction comparisons are usually not worth much. And this is a prime example. There are all kinds of people in here comparing the Shakush to Alephs Agamemnon. And the general consensus is that Aleph got the better tag. But in practicality? The Shakush fills in a gap in our lists. The Agamemnon doesn't do that for Aleph. Because Aleph already has Achilles.

So what unit actually benefits its faction more? The Shakush. The "worse" unit will have more impact on lists and is more useful.

 

I have two lists, the first I have run a couple of times and is just a lot of fun. The namurr does most of the work, but the shakush has had arun or two up the flank.


DoubleDuoRafiq
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GROUP 1 9 2 1
RAFIQ REMOTE FTO Red Fury, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 20)
NAMURR (Tactical Awareness) Breaker Rifle, Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Heavy Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (0 | 41)
CARMEN Chain Rifle(+1B), Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol(+1B), DA CC Weapon. (0 | 18)
BÂTARD Trench-Hammer, AP CC Weapon. (0 | 5)
ZHAYEDAN (BS Attack [Shock]) Heavy Machine Gun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 33)
ZHAYEDAN Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 27)
GHULAM (Doctor [+3]) Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
GHULAM (Lieutenant) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
GHULAM (NCO) Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 15)
NAJJARUN Engineer Rifle, Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
NASMAT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)

GROUP 2 4 2
FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
RAFIQ REMOTE FTO Red Fury, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 20)
SHAKUSH Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Flamethrower / AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 58)
SHAKUSH PILOT Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse ( ) / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)

5.5 SWC | 300 Points

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This one is a big dumb fun.
Armored Fury
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10 3
MAGHARIBA MULTI Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Flamethrower(+1B), Mine Dispenser / AP Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 85)
MAGHARIBA PILOT (Paramedic) Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
SHAKUSH AP Spitfire, Heavy Flamethrower / AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 58)
SHAKUSH PILOT Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
SHAKUSH AP Spitfire, Heavy Flamethrower / AP CC Weapon. (1.5 | 58)
SHAKUSH PILOT Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
GHULAM (Lieutenant) Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
GHULAM (Doctor [+3]) Rifle, Light Shotgun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
GHULAM Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16)
GHULAM Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16)
GHULAM (Hacker, Hacking Device) Rifle, Light Shotgun ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 16)
FANOUS REMOTE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
NAJJARUN Engineer Rifle, Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
NASMAT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)

6 SWC | 300 Points

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