September>December 2024: Nuclear winter has struck, leaving room for the N5

At this point I will have to ask you to provide any solid evidence of your bold claims or politely ask you to never express wild and baseless speculations in any authoritative and definite language.

More or less that is their background.

There are several restrictions that make Bangbomb (+4) distinct and different from a dodge (-3) skill.

 

Is there anything that makes it distinct and different from a dodge (+3) skill?

 

you dont move, you cant use against templates and can be used only against attacks

baseless, yeah, you'll like that was true. So you want me to put my sources on the table so you can also attack them.

 

Needs LOF, does not provide negative modifier but positive.

Therefore, cannot drastically alter the shooters BS to 0 or bellow making it an automatic failure, cannot be used against indirect attacks and it cannot be used against template weapons.

 

As it is written you will be able to move because it is a dodge declaration.

 

oh, ok, it's applied to the dodge roll and is not a pseudo dodge itself, nice

 

Drastically altering the shooters BS isn't really an issue, as the Ayyar lacks any other Negative Modifiers that could apply when it declares Dodge. The only way to hit BS0 would be if the shooter was attacking in a -6 Rangeband while you have Partial Cover, which probably isn't very statistically relevant.

Dodge (-3) also doesn't apply against Indirect Attacks, as both Speculative and Guided specify that they ignore most negative MODs.

The math works out pretty equally in most cases when plugged into a calculator, with only a few % difference.

Really the only big difference is that the new Bangbomb doesn't work against impact templates, which, to be frank, is very strange. I get the idea, that throwing a flashbang won't stop a grenade or rocket from exploding, but if that's the case then why does throwing smoke work? If multiple models get caught in the blast range, one model can "dodge" the explosion by shooting first while the model right next to him still gets hit. So why doesn't the flashbang work?

Actually, speaking of fluff-rules interactions, why the hell does a Flashbang make the model throwing it better at dodging instead of imposing a penalty on the shooter anyways? It's as if the Flashbang exploding somehow boosts the Ayyar's reflexes while the attacker is completely unphased. It's like if a model got "BS Attack (+3)" because it's wearing camouflage, or "BS Attack (SR-1)" because it's wearing heavier armor.

The Bangbomb is just a complete mess, in both mechanics and flavor. 0/10 addition to the game.

 

Its a cool bit of kit that has been sorely needed. @psychoticstorm detailed the differences.I really, really hope Ninjas get this or smoke grenades.

While N4 was great for simplicity, I missed all the esoteric equipment we lost from previous editions. I am glad they are adding some new cool things back in.

Edit: To me, the flavor of the Bangbomb could be a capsule of Nano Bees that slow down the incoming projectiles and allowing you to dodge them easier. Or in other cases, it could be a Swordsman/energy shield deflecting the bullets. I will wait for the lore description, but it seems rad and Anime as heck to me.

 

The differences are extremely minor and inconsistent with the flavor. A flashbang shouldn't make a model better at dodging, it should make whatever is shooting at you worse at shooting.

My favorite part: the rules as written allow the +4 MOD to be applied even if you are the target of a Hacking attack. Which means if you declare Dodge to try and get out of an attacker's Hacking Area, you get a +4 to that roll. And it isn't even a Face-to-Face roll; it's a Normal Roll, which also means that throwing the flashbang doesn't even make the opponent worse at hacking. You just magically get better at dodging.

The more I look at Bangbombs the more I dislike them.

 

So, a better Hundun. Exact same skills, same weapons except Assault Pistol and Parrot, same BS and both even have X-visor on the HRL. I say better because of the Mim-6 and cheaper than a Hundun. Hundun has MSV1 on a shock marksman rifle. But I think we can agree that no one will use the SMR on either of them. The Blink also has Assault Pistol and wildparrot on the HRL. Doesn't seem very original to me.

Edit: sorry Hundun costs 1pt less for HRL. 2pts more for sniper.

 

Not being able to dodge templates, +4 bonus instead of +3 and the impossibility to use it in the active turn isn't exactly what I would call "extremely minor differences"... And from the flavour point of view, there is also a big difference between being able to dodge bullets and move forward fast because of enhanced physique or drugs, and dropping a bomb at your feet to disappear in smoke or nanotech. I like it.

About the hacking thing, it's most probably not intended and it will be FAQ I guess. C'mon, the rule isn't even out yet.

 

We're discussing Dodge (-3), not Dodge (+3). Burlesford mistakingly wrote "+3", but PsychoticStorm's response was speaking to "-3".

If you'd actually bothered to read my post where I detailed the differences, you would have noticed that I talked about how Bangbombs are different from "Dodge (+3)" and why "Dodge (-3)" is a much better comparison.

And again, the flavor makes no sense. If the Bangbomb is some form of enhanced physique or drugs, which is what a bonus to the Dodge value usually indicates, then why does it not apply against templates like the other models that have enhanced reflexes like the Boyg? If the Bangbomb is a flashbang that helps you dodge by blinding the attacker, then why does it apply a bonus to your dodge value instead of a malus to the attacker? The rules simply do not match the flavor.

 

"Entities must not be multiplied beyond necess... Oooh, but why not?“

 

N5 is looking really wild and I'm here for it. When N4 dropped I expected the profiles to go a lot more crazy with the way they were hyping up not being beholden to +-3. But it was largely a port of N3 to N4 profile wise. Then when they announced N5 continue the system as was from N4 without major changes, i didn't expect such crazy mods and load outs. We've been revealed bangbombs, crazy stat mods, MA tiers that matter, and silenced pistols. I'm ready to believe in weapons like the a Plasma Spitfire....

...USARF is a poor backwards nation sitting on an absurd amount of Tessium they can't even make cubes with. So they made a bunch of gigantic crazy inefficent exoskeletons with it that can't fit through a door and struggle to dodge due to being loaded down with Ariadna's Heavist machine gun. Your telling me that humungous back back full of ammo isn't filled to the brim with T2 rounds?! Space America would be concerned in any way about 'wasting' some T2? This is it, T2 HMG Blackjack is coming, i feel it my coke-cola soaked bones.

 

Well, I'm sorry that mistaking a - for + affected you that much and I apologise a million times for the inconvenience. Please, let me know if this is enough, otherwise I'll apologise again, with a handwritten letter if you feel it's needed.

And this is just your opinion. Mine is in my previous message, if you actually bother to read it :)

 

No T2 HMG or missile launcher until CHA came back. Scots have the bigger amount of tessium of all Dawn

 

We're having a disagreement on a board about a miniatures game, your hostility is unfounded and unwarranted. Don't turn your username into a description of your maturity.

And I did read your opinion. In fact I directly addressed it. None of the scenarios you posited would be accurately represented by the Bangbomb's rules in game, for the reasons that I stated. I'm not sure why my opinion differing from yours seems to trigger you so, given your backhanded condescending "apology", but I hope you learn how to civilly disagree, especially when it comes to a discussion about a damn miniatures game.

 

While I get that you don't like this new piece of Equipment, unless I am missing something, we don't have the fluff for BangBombs yet, right? We don't know the in fiction reason they work, yet and just are throwing out random justifications.

From a rule/equipment aspect I see it as another nuanced esoteric piece of Equipment that helps make forces unique. Currently, we have following Dodge related rules;

• Dodge (+X): Super dodging beyond what would be normally dictated by your PHY. Could be drugs, hyper dynamics, awesome reflexes, etc.
• Dodge (-X): Dodging in a way that makes it harder for the attacker to actually hit you. Doesn't actually make you dodge better. Could be erratic movement, disruption, etc.
• New: Bangbombs. If you are attacked within LOS or LOC, you can use an Equipment device to dodge better. Could be nantes, anything.

I like that it allows difference and things like this helps fight to feeling of factions/models feeling so similar. But I can understand if you feel that if this is a step in the wrong direction.

 

Excuse me, what? My hostility? You're the one answering a condescending "If you'd actually bothered to read my post where I detailed the differences" to my perfectly civil initial message, and then you complain about me answering in a sarcastic manner. That's really rich. I suggest you put your own house into order first, I'm fine, thank you :)

Yes, you adressed my opinion with more opinion. Really feels like we are moving forward :)

 

What? N5 delayed? Did they botch the first print of N5 book or something?
Nothing kills the hype like blueballing with release date.