September>December 2024: Nuclear winter has struck, leaving room for the N5

and Breaker. But he no longer has to fear the ML ARO when he is jumping through the air (unless it crits).

 

Like the Go-Pod! But indeed, that thing will die veeeeeeery fast, hoping to do a decent amount of damage before it does. BS-3 will preserve it a bit. The little pal will be annoying. Seems less strong than the PanO tank but it makes sense considering it's Nomads, a flying TAG would have been a bit weird for them.

The Bronzes is sad? Damn, some of you guys are becoming very hard to please... Being immune to any ammo in the game is not nothing when you are ARM7/BTS9 most of the time. And that thing laugh at missile launchers. Together with the cost reduction and the rest of its skills, seems more than playable to me.

 

I think Enhanced is N5 Total, since Bronze had Imm:Total before.

And that finally gives Adhesive a viable niche, because as far as I understand - it is the only thing that is not resisted by Enhanced?

 

Most of the other units that we've seen, outside of the non-hatamoto Japanese, are rather tuned up. Bronze is very much the same. But okay, we'll see how well it fares.

 

I'm comparing the Go-Pod HRL to the Firebat Thunderbolt and things are not adding up.

The Go-Pod has AP on its SMG, Fire + Impact Template on the HRL, +1 BS, +1 PH, and Mim (-3) + BS Attack (-3). The Go-Bot costs 4 points, so the Go-Pod itself is worth 26 points.

The Firebat has +1 ARM and Mim (-6) and is 36 points.

Sure, the Go-Pod gets the benefit of HRLs being massively discounted in exchange for 1.5 SWC, but this comparison still seems way off. The Firebat costs 10 more points, has strictly worse weapons, is worse at shooting and dodging, with its only upsides being +1 ARM and better Mimetism (which isn't even always better thanks to the Go-Pod's BS Attack (-3)).

Doesn't seem right to me.

 

But at least we know that the "exact same" is 7-8 pts cheaper, that's a Flashpulse REM in difference. I hope the other HIs get some similiar discount as well.

 

We know for a fact that the point formula doesn't actually exist and that some miniatures are better than others for their cost. Why continue expecting every mini to be perfectly balanced to one another? It's not a thing, period. In each faction, there will be stronger and weaker stuff, it balances. Because it's about Torchlight Brigade, do you want to discuss the Silverstar prime? :D
The problem would be if one faction consistently had superior everything, but it's not the case.
Is the Firebat strictly a bit less good than the nomad one? Looks like it is. Not by much I would say though. Is it still playable? Looks like it is as well.

 

I did the reactive Calculations against a BS B13 HMG in Cover as it seems a likely scenario:
BS 13 HMG in cover with good range bands versus Dodging Firebat:

Active (0.61 wounds / order):
Wins F2F: 52.7%
Causes 1+ wounds: 40.7%,
Causes 2+ wounds: 15.7%,
Causes 3+ wounds: 3.5%
Failure:
No wounds caused: 59.3%
(12.0% chance active player causes no wounds)
(36.0% chance reactive player causes no wounds)
Reactive (0.00 wounds / order):
Wins F2F: 36.0%

BS 13 HMG in Cover with good range bands versus Shooting HRL Go Pod:

Active (0.89 wounds / order):
Wins F2F: 63.8%
Causes 1+ wounds: 53.4%,
Causes 2+ wounds: 26.0%,
Causes 3+ wounds: 7.8%
Failure:
No wounds caused: 28.0%
(10.4% chance active player causes no wounds)
(10.8% chance reactive player causes no wounds)
Reactive (0.44 wounds / order):
Wins F2F: 29.3%
Causes 1+ wounds: 18.6%,
Causes 2+ wounds: 11.1%,
Causes 3+ wounds: 6.7%

It looks like the Fire Bat is more survival able in the reactive against a standard shooter. But I agree that BS 13 seems off for the Nomad unit.

 

I don't expect perfect balance, and I do give leeway for certain factions being better/weaker at things.

The Firebat does have some slight advantages (as showcased by @Brokenwolf ) but the fact that it's got strictly worse guns and is 10 more points is just off. Feels like a bridge too far to me, balance-wise.

 

Compare Tarik with the poor Bronze

 

I mean that's not nearly as bad to me; the Bronze has better armor, much better BTS+Immunity, a different range band, Climbing+, 360 Visor, smaller silhouette, and while IMO it's overall worse there's a big difference: the Bronze is cheaper. The worse unit being cheaper is how balance is generally supposed to work.

The Go-Pod is usually better than the Firebat while also getting a massive discount. That's not how it's supposed to work.

 

It's not really correct to say it's 10 more points. To start with, it's 10 more points AND 1 SWC less, which is a big deal for Nomads as they tend to be very SWC-hungry. Including a 1.5 SWC Go-Pod will come at the price of non-trivial sacrifices.

Also, it's a bit unfair to just remove the price of the Go-Bot from the equation, as you are forced to take it anyway.

And as mentioned above indeed, the Firebat has also some small advantages so I'm not really shocked about the comparison.

 

The tuned-up of the Bronze is called "Linked teams have B1 with advantage dice, and not anymore true B2 ARO". This means that an active turn VITA 2 Bronze knows he has a 100% survival rate in any single individual FTF against a non- neurokinetic / total reaction enemy. No matter what. Even if the enemy crits.

And by 100% I mean truly 100% survival rate. He may go unconscious against a lucky crit if you have horrible luck with saving rolls, but he will never ever go to direct death.

And he is 7 points (HMG / Redfury) or 8 points (multirifle specialist operative) or 10 points (HSG paramedic) cheaper.

 

Quick note: 1.5 SWC less; the regular Firebat is 0 SWC. The LRL Firebat pays 0.5 SWC but that profile is even more expensive.

For peripherals or cases where you're required to purchase multiple units (Equipe Mirage 5, Polaris Team) IMO it's always better to separate them to get a more accurate comparison; otherwise it gets muddy. And the Go-Bot is really, really good; Super fast, Mimetism, Dodge(-3), a WIP 13 Flash Pulse with BS Attack (-3) attached and a Chain Colt gives it a lot of versatility. It can be a Flash Bot on ARO or zoom in and trade with its DTW while the Go-Pod fights something else.

But still, even if you ignore the Go-Bot and just compare the Firebat to the Go-Pod at 6 points cheaper, it still doesn't feel right to me. The Go-Pod has strictly better guns in Active Turn (where Aerial units are designed to operate) and is mostly a sidegrade in ARO (better vs MSV2, worse vs Warhorse) while still having the benefit of strictly better weapons. Sure, the Firebat can dodge a bit better (though still -1 PH, and it's worse vs. MSV2) and has +1 ARM, but is that worth 6 extra points, no AP, no Fire, and no Template? Not in my opinion.

 

The massive saves could point to both 360 visors Immunity (Enhanced) getting much cheaper. Those are both changes Haqqislam would like.

 

Especially since it looks like both ARM and Mimetism -6 got cheaper in N5 generally. I agree it looks kinda odd like something is off. But we could be missing something or not taking something in account.

 

Can be expect Knights of Santiago, Raptors, Tian Gous and Sekudroids getting much cheaper as well? The Starmada player in me will be delighted.

 

I’m pretty happy with the Bronze change. The point change of course is great. I liked him before, but I didn’t think he was worth that many points. Now I do.

 

Completely agree. Now they can become the unstoppable roadblocks they were meant to be. If they can get a decent Fireteam they will really shine.