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Sell me on the bandits

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Paperclip, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. Paperclip

    Paperclip Member

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    Looking around several lists, bandits seem to make it to most vanilla or CJC lists. But with wip 12 on either hacker profiles and low bursts guns, I'm not sure what role do they fill. I'm sure the role for surprise CC from either camo or cyber mask can be decent, but on a 1 wound 20 odd points irregular trooper, it doesn't seem like such a good trade. Am I missing something ? What role do they fill in your lists?
     
  2. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Mostly decent in CJC, as they are outperformed in vanilla.

    They make for decent rambo units and some people like them for their utility when using KHD fx.
    Personally I don't see the value in the KHD, as that makes her more vulnerable to other threaths. The Boarding Shotgun + E/Mauler is hillariously good vs Avatars/Maruts, when especially CJC tend to have difficulty to come up with answers for such threaths. Or rather, they USED to. Much of that changed when McBroken got buffed and there's little to stop him now from slaughtering such threaths. Heck McBroken can reliably trade with Achilies and live to tell the tale.
     
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  3. Civilized Barbarian

    Civilized Barbarian Praxis' Lead R&D Janitor

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    In CJC it's the only camo infiltrator, so that's reason enough, but also:

    High CC with Surprise Attack and DA CCW is theoretically great, especially in a sectorial with plenty of midfield smoke.

    Shotguns on almost every model are great for punishing your opponent's aggressive links.

    The BSG/Emauler profile is a nasty hunter, especially if you're up against PanO or Yu-Jing.

    FO when I want a cheap camo specialist, KHD when I also want to bring a REM.

    Scavenger is rarely relevant but it's hilarious and memorable when it comes into play.

    In Vanilla i always skip it in favor of Zeros and Morlocks, but I'm sure other people swear by the Bandit there.
     
  4. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    0SWC strike piece. They can be used as a Camo'd Alpha Striker, but if lost it doesn't affect the integrity of my order pool. They are not primarily a specialist option*: Tomcats specialists and Morans cover that role in CJC and Zeros are better in Vanilla.

    To really get the most use out of Bandits you need to learn to love Move+Move as a Camo marker across someone's line of sight. Mostly people will hold rather than Discover. Even if they Discover so long as you finish your next move in Total Cover all you need to do is spend an order to ReCamo and you can do it again.

    I regularly pour 5-8 orders into my Bandits turn one to push them into my opponent's DZ to kill a specifically nasty unit or to take apart a link. Dakini links in particular do not like them, bouncing shotgun templates off a Dakini who's blocking LOS to the other's in the link is great fun. That being said, high quality SSL1+ links are the bane of their existence so you really need to do things like leverage the AP Mine or EMauler profiles as a link breaker prior to going to town with their guns/CC (Wildcats, for instance, are extremely solid at stopping a Bandit).

    * Exception, Supremacy. They're hilarious if you can push them to take the far objectives, because you can also CC them with a DA CCW to deny them to your opponent as well. ;)

    Other 20-30pt 0SWC strike pieces regularly seen in Nomad lists (they're a faction feature):
    Uberfalls
    Tomcats
    BSG Hellcats
    BSG Spectrs
    Lunokhods
    BSG Zondnautica
     
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  5. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    First and foremost, the Bandit is a Camo Infiltrating Specialist. It's hard to beat that, particular in CJC.

    Second, I see a unit that can present a lot of different threats. It's an opportunist. Does it see a perfect shotgun blast? Can it manuever for a decent shot on a TAG? Can it jump into CC and beat down a higher point unit? Scavenger is highly valuable too. With close-range options like shotguns or Close Combat, you're very well situated to grab items off of an opponent, and become a more powerful unit.
     
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  6. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    Just last saturday I had 2 KHD bandits take out a Malignos and Bit in ARO, they can also be quite deadly in the active, imposing a -3 for surprise hack when popping out of cover, which can be combined with Redrum for a net -6 or with Skullbuster for a WIP boost, so the 12WIP isn't much of an issue in that regard.
    In Corregidor they are the only camo infiltrating specialist option and the best anti-hacker short of actual shooting.
    They also have amazing cc capability, working as a kind of "ninja lite".
    I always take at least 1 in both Corregidor and Starco.
    In vanilla they can work well but if you want a great hacker you go with Interventors, and if you want a great infiltrating specialist you use zeros.

    In short, they have their place, and it's a very good place
     
  7. Paperclip

    Paperclip Member

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    Those are some quick replies, I appreciate them all! I guess I'm more interested in vanilla, so I guess they serve more as a beat stick because of better specialists like zeroes am I right?
     
  8. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    @Zewrath, why do you say outperformed in Vanilla?

    I still find that they're solid in role as a 0 SWC striker and the fact that they're Irregular isn't painful because usually you're spending orders on them. They're cheaper and often more effective than Spectrs and generally outperform Heckers (Heckler BSG is a decent but ghetto option in this space). Uberfalls are probably better, but they provide an alternative vector to the Chimera so I wouldn't say they step on each other too much.

    But, yeah they're in almost every single CJC list I write whereas they're in only 20-30% of my Vanilla lists.
     
    #8 inane.imp, Apr 23, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I absolutely disagree. They're lastly an infiltrating specialist. 9/10 they're only a specialist because I need a KHD in my CJC list and they're the only option. As @Zewrath says making them a Hacker opens up a vulnerability and complicates their approach to a target. Nomads have more than enough forward deployed specialists that they don't need to use Bandits for that role.

    I only got good at using Bandits when I realised that they weren't Zeroes.

    They're not really a beat stick (Intruders / Krizas fill that role more). They're more of a shiv. Spend a lot of time setting up an attack, then stab it into your targets a kidney from behind and even then realise there's a fair chance that it breaks off and you don't get another chance. If it doesn't then you get to keep stabbing until your opponent is lying in a pool of their own blood.
     
  10. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Are you making the case that you usually field the non-Specialists profiles for Bandits? Because I think that Specialist role is pretty useful.

    It's probably helpful to differentiate between CJC and Vanilla too. The emphasis on bandits changes, depending on Vanilla or Sectorial.
     
  11. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    No. I'm saying that even when I'm fielding specialist Bandits they're not there as 'first and foremost a Camo Infilitrating specialist'. They're there as first and foremost a 0SWC striker. The fact that they can also push buttons is, generally, the 3rd consideration (at best).

    I think thinking of Bandits as foremost a Camo Infilitrating specialist is a bad way to conceive of them.
     
  12. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    [​IMG]
     
  13. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    When I field them in CJC and StarCo they are first and foremost camo infiltrating specialists

    They just happen to also be able to wreck face
     
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  14. Click2kill

    Click2kill Well-Known Member

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    Bandits are the closest thing Nomads have to an Impersonator type unit. They have a 50% chance to infiltrate on your opponent's side if the board. Scavenger means they can 'rambo' on the fly if they pick up something crazy like a spitfire or hmg, or pick up an ODD, hacking device, etc.

    Normally, Nomads don't play this way, which is why Zeroes are better in vanilla.
     
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  15. jimbo slice

    jimbo slice Well-Known Member

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    I wish the FO profile had a combi and mines. Then it would be first and foremost a camo infiltrating specialist.

    I almost always take a KHD in CJC, but it's not like there's a choice. I've used it alongside the BSG, setting up traps for mid field hacking pressence, to clear out enemy skimishers so the rest of my force can advance.

    I agree with @inane.imp that the Bandit's primary role is striker, though. They're really good at bullying other skirmishers, opening a hole in the enemies line, and striking something vulnerable. If you aren't shooting or chopping something, you should be moving to somewhere you can.
     
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  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Well, yes.

    We're discussing 'what is/are the role/s of Bandits'. I disagree with your opinion. This seems to be the basis of a conversation.

    Why do you consider Bandits, first and foremost as specialists in a faction with access to a myriad of other forward deployed options. Why do you find Camo Specialist so important a role to fill?

    Usually I find that AD, Morans or similar do it better. Or I can do it as a tertiary function of Bandits.

    Thinking of Bandits in the same way I thought of Zeroes (which are often simply Camo Infil Specialists) held back my use. It was only after I learned to use them aggressively as strikers that they started doing exceedingly well for me.
     
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  17. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    They are an excellent Alpha striker. I love the BSG emauler guy, like A LOT. Although many like the KHD and she can work ok as an infiltrating specialist, I like @inane.imp like him a lot more to hurt people with. The distinction from other camo infiltrators is the good CC (relying a bit on surprise attack), the irregular order, and the dangerous short range weapons on BS12. All of which make him an excellent light attack piece that can really exploit a weakness in your opponents deployment. BS12 camo surprise shot shotgun is very scary to lighter pieces, especially clumped ones, and for things that can't deal with well the emauler is a big threat to heavier ones. Then stabbing them in the face and / orstealing their stuff is a lot of fun and sometimes useful. Learn how to use him aggressively and you will get good value out of him, he's one of my favourite pieces.
     
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  18. helsbecter

    helsbecter Ultrademocratic subSenator, #dominion Module

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    Bandits are about 50% more expensive than Zeroes, so if you take one and he winds up standing around you wasted a whole cheerleader's worth of points. If you take one it's important to make sure they see some decisive action.
     
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  19. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Great posts @inane.imp, I'm new to Nomads and had written off the Bandit as a "shit, expensive irregular Zero". But what I want more than anything in this faction is multiple different attack vectors and you've convinced me that this guy is worth trying out.

    Whether +1 BS, the CC and the shuffled equipment makes him worthwhile vs the EM Mine/Combi Zero for a lower cost? Time will tell. But at least now he's getting a go on the table!
     
  20. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    The bandit especially the KHD profile, is a great midfield hunter that occasionally presses buttons when needed. its got a shotgun and half decent cc to deal with enemy skirmishers, a ADHL for ARO(if you are unable to re-camo for what ever reason) and taking on hard targets like tags, and a KHD to take out enemy hackers. while wip 12 does make the hacking less attractive at face value once you add in surprise attack it has a good chance of winning a reasonable number to hack fights. If you are good at leveraging marker states and movement/positioning with it the bandit can take down pretty much anything.
     
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