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Sectorial Army Fireteam Overviews

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Tristan228, Jun 5, 2021.

  1. Ugin

    Ugin Well-Known Member
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    Hell, this is soooo cool!:+1:
     
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  2. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Bakunin's best Morlock trainer
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    I managed to get the Tohaa related overviews done. In Spiral the combination of four Fireteam types plus Wildcard was a challenge to disply and I can bet I didn't fully understand that Kiel-Saan fireteam despite quite a lecture here in the forum. So far my interpretation goes: you can add various numbers of Kaauri Paramedics to any combination of Draal FTOs, the Kiel-Saan FTOs and Keesan but never form a Triad solely out of Kaauri Paramedics since they lack the (Special) Triad skill.
    Also I modified Neema's Troop Emblem so one can distinguish her from the Ectros in Tohaa (and because IMO all characters need a special emblem:wink: Did that also with Kusanagi and Kerr-Nau).

    Thanks! :) Well I'm always open for ideas in terms of a better way to display everything. The "highly illustrative" MO diagram got a little bit neatened up already so it might be more readable now - by a small margin though.
    Thanks mate :)
     
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  3. Pflaumenmus

    Pflaumenmus Active Member

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    Regarding the Kiel-Saan Firetram...you're almost there:
    The Special Fireteam Team Triad must always contain at least one Kiel-Saan (Kiel-Saan mandatory). All of the rest can be added in any quantity and combination (so Draal FTO, Kaauri Para and Hatail as well as more Kiel-Saans)

    And well done, appreciate your effort. This really helps diving into new sectorials right now.
     
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  4. Mayel

    Mayel Ursi de Tunguska

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    This is a nice work.
    Suggestion : you could lighten the diagram by deleting red arrows. We already know that every real wildcard can go in every FT of the faction. So red color is good enough for reporting the exception.
     
  5. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Bakunin's best Morlock trainer
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    By now I've finished all the PanO sectorials and one can clearly see which of them were specifically designed in N4. Also with Hassassin Bahram the first Haqqislam sectorial got the treatment as well.

    Well... that could've been made way more clear in Army or the Sectorial Chart pictures :face_with_rolling_eyes: Like it's been done in MAF with the Oznats

    Yes, they can go in every fireteam but if they lack the correct fireteam skills they won't be able to subsidise certain troopers which I try to show with the arrows :)
     
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  6. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Haven't noticed that before, nice work.
     
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  7. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    While I appreciate the work put into it, I think it literally illustrates how crazy it is. I made simple way of the same thing in the Yu Jing page.

    Here's an example

    Zuyong Core
    1 to 5 Zuyong
    0 to 1 Captain Gao
    0 to 1 Cheong-Hee Jeong
    0 to 3 Haidao
    0 to 2 Hulang FTO
    0 to 1 Lei Gong
    0 to 4 Shang Ji
    0 to 1 Son-Bae
    0 to 1 Yaopu Pangguling FTO
    0 to 1 Tai Sheng
    0 to 1 Krit Kokram FTO
     
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  8. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    I find that thing confusing as hell...
     
  9. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Bakunin's best Morlock trainer
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    Starmada (Varangian guards are now allowed to form a Fireteam Duo) and Tohaa (no classic Triad for the Kriigel anymore) got updated and I added the diagram for Druze Bayram "Security"
    So you need that block of text for every single type of fireteam? That sounds like a flood of text. And to quote a player who I showed your example just today: "I don't want to waste my time to read another page of text."
    Alguacil Core
    1 - 5 Alguaciles
    0 - 1 Lupe Balboa
    0 - 4 Mobile Brigadas
    0 - 4 EVAders
    0 - 2 Daktari
    0 - 2 Tsyklon Sputniks
    0 - 2 Vostok Sputniks
    0 - 1 Sr. Massacre
    0 - 1 Wolfi Wolff
    0 - 1 Jazz
    0 - 1 Valeria Gromoz

    Mobile Brigada Core
    1 - 5 Mobile Brigadas
    0 - 1 Lupe Balboa
    0 - 4 EVAders
    0 - 2 Daktari
    0 - 2 Tsyklon Sputniks
    0 - 2 Vostok Sputniks
    0 - 1 Sr. Massacre
    0 - 1 Wolfi Wolff
    0 - 1 Jazz
    0 - 1 Valeria Gromoz

    EVAders Core
    1 - 5 EVAders
    0 - 1 Lupe Balboa
    0 - 4 Mobile Brigadas
    0 - 2 Daktari
    0 - 2 Tsyklon Sputniks
    0 - 2 Vostok Sputniks
    0 - 1 Sr. Massacre
    0 - 1 Wolfi Wolff
    0 - 1 Jazz
    0 - 1 Valeria Gromoz

    EVAders Haris
    1 - 3 EVAders
    0 - 1 Lupe Balboa
    0 - 2 Mobile Brigadas
    0 - 2 Daktari
    0 - 2 Tsyklon Sputniks
    0 - 2 Vostok Sputniks
    0 - 1 Sr. Massacre
    0 - 1 Wolfi Wolff
    0 - 1 Jazz
    0 - 1 Valeria Gromoz

    Jaguars Core
    1 - 5 Jaguars
    0 - 1 Lupe Balboa
    0 - 4 Mobile Brigadas
    0 - 4 EVAders
    0 - 2 Daktari
    0 - 2 Tsyklon Sputniks
    0 - 2 Vostok Sputniks
    0 - 1 Sr. Massacre
    0 - 1 Wolfi Wolff
    0 - 1 Jazz
    0 - 1 Valeria Gromoz

    Jaguars Haris
    1 - 3 Jaguars
    0 - 1 Lupe Balboa
    0 - 2 Mobile Brigadas
    0 - 2 EVAders
    0 - 2 Daktari
    0 - 2 Tsyklon Sputniks
    0 - 2 Vostok Sputniks
    0 - 1 Sr. Massacre
    0 - 1 Wolfi Wolff
    0 - 1 Jazz
    0 - 1 Valeria Gromoz

    Wildcats Core
    1 - 5 Wildcats
    0 - 1 Lupe Balboa
    0 - 4 Mobile Brigadas
    0 - 4 EVAders
    0 - 2 Daktari
    0 - 2 Tsyklon Sputniks
    0 - 2 Vostok Sputniks
    0 - 1 Sr. Massacre
    0 - 1 Wolfi Wolff
    0 - 1 Jazz
    0 - 1 Valeria Gromoz

    Wildcats Haris
    1 - 3 Wildcats
    0 - 1 Lupe Balboa
    0 - 2 Mobile Brigadas
    0 - 2 EVAders
    0 - 2 Daktari
    0 - 2 Tsyklon Sputniks
    0 - 2 Vostok Sputniks
    0 - 1 Sr. Massacre
    0 - 1 Wolfi Wolff
    0 - 1 Jazz
    0 - 1 Valeria Gromoz

    Gecko Duo
    1 - 2 Geckos
    0 - 1 Lupe Balboa
    0 - 1 Mobile Brigadas
    0 - 1 EVAders
    0 - 1 Daktari
    0 - 1 Tsyklon Sputniks
    0 - 1 Vostok Sputniks
    0 - 1 Sr. Massacre
    0 - 1 Wolfi Wolff
    0 - 1 Jazz
    0 - 1 Valeria Gromoz

    This alone occupies a whole ISO A4 page in MS Word.
    But in the end any player will use what suits them best.
    I'd blame CB for your confusion ;) But would you like to tell me why? To me, and the players I initially made these pics for, it's a pretty easy sytem by locating a toop by its emblem and then check if or which arrows point towards / away from this emblem.
     
    #29 Tristan228, Jun 12, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  10. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    IDK how to exlain, but i find the oficial charts or the army indications easier to read that this arrow hells... If i see to the diagram of an army i never played, i cant figure out anything, but with the oficial chart, i can.
     
  11. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    I think @Space Ranger is pretty grossly exaggerating the complexity of this. To take his example, here's what a Zuyong Core would actually look like:

    Zuyong Core
    1 to 5 Zuyong
    0 to 4 wildcards

    I mean, wildcards are pretty easy to understand.

    It gets a little more complicated for "a can join b" units, but still not that bad. Let's take Hospitallers because they look complicated in the diagram:

    Hospitaller Core
    1 to 5 Hospitallers (De Fersen counts)
    0 to 1 Order Sergeants OR Joan of Arc
    0 to 4 wildcards

    Simple!

    Moiras also look confusing in the diagram, but:

    Moira Core
    1-5 Moiras
    0-4 Custodiers
    0-4 Healers
    0-1 Kusanagi
    0-4 wildcards

    Here's one I run all the time:

    Ghulam Core
    1-4 Ghulams
    0-2 Barids
    0-1 Avicenna
    0-4 wildcards

    It's really not that hard.
     
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  12. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    Come to think of it, you might consider just removing all the red arrows and putting the wildcard pools off to the side. You already have them in red and labelled "wild card pool," so it's clear that they can sub into any fireteam. The diagrams might get a lot more legible if the arrows just denoted the non-wildcard relationships. (I think it would achieve what I picture from @wes-o-matic 's suggestion of a "more partitioned structure.")
     
  13. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    The circles look cool compared to a grid or table like pattern tho.
     
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  14. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Bakunin's best Morlock trainer
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    The Sectorial list is easy to read, that's right. You get some information from that but then the rest is written on another page and for me that's the part where it gets less easy for me: blocks of text with a varying degree of clarity in the writing. But every person processes information differently and for me arrows work better than the tex does. I get all the info needed with one look and I can compare many sectorials with ease. All in all these diagrams shouldn't replace those Sectorial charts (I mean, I'd be chuffed to bits to have the charts in the wiki!) but to serve as an extension for them.

    I think it should be written it like this due to the restriction of 1 per non-crusade Fireteam on the Infirmarer though.
    Hospitaller Core
    1 to 5 Hospitallers (De Fersen counts)
    0 to 1 Order Sergeants
    0 to 1 Infirmarer
    0 to 4 wildcards

    Hospitaller Crusade Core

    1 to 4 Hospitallers (De Fersen counts)
    1 Joan of Arc
    0 to 4 wildcards (no Order Sergeants, no Infirmarer)

    By the way, do you see that @Space Ranger just made us do his work? Sneaky. ;)
    Yes, it's apparent in many diagrams that a high number of linkable troops leads to a high number of arrows which can be (is in MO and SWF) overwhelming in some of the graphics. But since not all units can be part of a fireteam by themselves I see the arrows a neccessary evil to convey some precise information where the Wildcards can actually join in Fireteams.
     
  15. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Tbh I like how at a glance you get a really good idea of the overall structure and complexity of a Sectorials fireteams, whether they have a lot or a few wildcards etc.

    Then I can drill down to specifics in Army which is good at that but not at the overview.
     
  16. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit Chickenbot herder

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    You're right! I didn't notice the Infirmarer restrictions - I'd thought that the only fireteam rules not found as notes to Hospitallers would be straight wildcard rules. I guess the Infirmarer is a sort of "limited wildcard" so its rules only go in its own notes :-(

    He's a criminal mastermind!

    Yup, it's all a matter of taste! For those who found the current diagrams too confusing with all the arrows, I do think removing the wildcard arrows would help a lot. Maybe put all the wildcards along the bottom of the diagram, then have one big wide arrow pointing from the whole wildcard pool to the whole set of fireteam diagrams, to indicate that any wildcard can join any fireteam. The individual red arrows just seem redundant since by definition, there will always be exactly one red arrow pointing from the wildcard pool to each and every fireteam option (with the sole exception of the infirmarer not being able to join crusade teams).

    (The red arrows also make the fireteams look more complex than the are, lending fuel to the idea that your charts illustrate that fireteams are overly complex. Whereas wildcards are actually really simple. Removing the red arrows would present a better picture of the actual complexity level of each sectorial's fireteam options.)

    But I mean, if others find the red arrows helpful, leave them in, you're the designer :-) I'm just brainstorming from the sidelines.
     
  17. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    I showed the diagrams to some other people in my comunity and all "heavely dislike".

    and i quote:

    Confusing
    Only logos is a mistake.
    Army is easier to understand
     
  18. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Having more options is never a bad thing, some people are visual others are text oriented.
     
  19. miguelbarbo84

    miguelbarbo84 Well-Known Member

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    You'll have to re-review: Hector isn't a "full" wildcard. He can only get into Nyoka or Betatroopers ' links.
     
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  20. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I initially had that same way when I started it. But then who are the wildcards? By having 0-4 Wildcards, I now need to go look that up. That could be many different wildcards. I didn't want to have look up those wildcards when the are right there for me to see. There's a line between simple and too simple.

    It would be a bit easier if they just made Wildcard a skill that could be filtered in ARMY. They wouldn't need to have FTO on some troops too. Some FTO are wildcards but some are Specific teams however.

    I'm actually a graphic artist and the charts in the OP breaks a lot of graphic design laws. Mainly of simplicity. It also makes people need to remember the icons for each unit. Not a bad thing but you shouldn't be forced to do that.
     
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