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Saucy Sepulchre Speculation

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Judge Dredd, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    So we know a few more profiles are getting tweaked and the Sepulchre Knight is a prime candidate. What do you think they will likely do with him? Will they let him keep holoprojector?

    Assuming they want to keep him largely intact, I figure there's a couple of small bumps they could do to change him:
    -bts bump. Hospitaliers have better bts and these guys are supposed to be astounding fighters and geared to the teeth. It just makes sense for them to have the best armor

    -weapons. Since montessa have dropped out our lgl and lrl, it's possible that the sepulchre will swoop them up to give the impression of a unit armed to the teeth and give them flexible loadouts to compliment hiding in holo state. At very least I suspect that he will be given a multi rifle or perhaps the much wishlisted multi marksman. He would also be a prime candidate for a nanopulser. I wouldn't even notice if the dep was dropped and I doubt anyone else would either.

    -specialist capabilities. Put that wip 14 to work son! I believe that making him chain of command would be a good move to give them a unique yet expensive role especially since their point cost will likely push toos out.

    Less likely changes:
    -dropping holo2 for something else. Frankly if they swapped him over to ODD he might be quite an eye catcher as a straight forward gunfighter.

    -buff his combat stats. Fluff states that these guys are elite beyond other knights and describes their fighting style as awe inspiring among their peers. Bumping up his CC and perhaps even giving him the coveted Pano BS 15 to put him on Aquilla and Swiss levels with appropriate price increase could make for a very attractive piece if combined with new weapons. Again this is an area where he's oddly mediocre being essentially a solo hospitalier knight with holo.

    What do you suspect might happen?
     
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  2. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    Honestly if he drops to odd and gets a red fury or an hmg and literally nothing else changes, he would make it into most of my lists.

    I gotta say i ran the shikami for a tournament last weekend and those assault pistols+ odd were completely outstanding
     
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  3. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    I know I'm in the minority, but I like him the way he is, and I think the price is fair.

    Holo1 allows for some interesting mine games: 2 Joans, ignore the cheap trooper in the corner, etc.

    Holo2 is as good, if not better in some situations that TO:Camo, but you're not paying the same price as a Swiss Guard. Surprise Attack is the same in both cases. Forcing your opponent to pick a model can be much more effective if you can get them to guess wrong. After the initial, you'll need to pay an order, while TO:Camo still applies a -6 MOD. However, Holo2 automatically regenerates, while TO Camo requires an order.

    That having been said I think your suggestions for a different weapon load out are interesting. I love him with the Spitfire, but it makes him similar to all the other Knights, while a different weapon could further differentiate him from the pack.
     
  4. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    Holo 1 is good in cheap profiles.

    But a 50 point model pretending he is another 50 point model just doesnt have as much value.

    Holo 2 is neat but sadly incredibly overcosted.

    Now that you can always delay against marker states there is never the chance to pick wrong, and moving badly can punish you, as templates can purposely target an echo in the open to splash onto the real model.

    TO camo marker state also makes you hacking immune , whereas holo echoes have to divulge their hackable characteristics.

    This is why the sepulcher sees such little use
     
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  5. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem with holo on him, it can be fantastic. Overall though, he is basically stuck with the spitfire and struggles to have much relevance beyond being a very expensive BS14 spitfire with some shenanigans which competes with so many other knights. I mean until now a montessa spitfire would be in great range and cost less than the sepulchre.
     
  6. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    The thing is more that it is not an easy troop to play. But I had a lot of time managed to make moves I would never be able to do with a Swiss Guard. I think he is a bit overpriced, yes, but the toolkit could also be made a bit better.
    The thing is, you have to quit thinking you'll do stuff with it that Haqq or YJ do with a Holoprojector troop. We are PanO, we do PanO stuff. And our best known stuff except killing everyone is our TO guys in HD (and sometimes our paratroopers). So use it against your opponent. Let him think you're fielding OS and Crusaders in MO or SG or Croc-Men in Vanilla. This setup will already move things away at your advantage as your opponent will anticipate it and you're in fact ruining his deployment. Then, if you used Holo2, I would suggest to think about make the most you can of this because once you start your turn, the joke is partially off and your opponent will try to correct this. But if you're in Holo1, the joke can stay until turn 3 and this is priceless for things like Quadrant Control/Supremacy/Frontline or you just reveals that a simple fusilier with a combi in a desperate attempt to do things because the other attack pieces are off is in fact something way more threatning and kill what is on your way.

    Really, the more important think with KotHS is practice. Since a part of his might comes from mindgame, you have to practice it. Is he overpriced at the moment? I think yes, but I like that he is an expensive piece. I would just like him have more punch at any distance between 0-24" because he has to once your opponent know he is there.
     
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  7. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    A 50 pt model pretending to be your LT is not a bad approach, particularly since that 50 pt model is useful outside of that shell game. I also enjoy running it as a Fusilier and causing my opponent to ignore it, and assume I've got a AD trooper or Hexas Sniper waiting in the wings.

    Maybe. It's a 12 pt upgrade over the HMG Orc, but adds MA L2, cc21, WIP14, and a DA CCW.

    I think they must have changed the marker delay between N2 and N3, nobody I know plays that way, I think we're going to have to correct our approach. OTOH, it makes it easier to get into CC with your opponent, since if he delays you can keep advancing.

    Your comment about splashes reminded me they're excellent mine cleaning devices as well.

    Only while in the area of a hacker. Why setup a hacker/repeater network against the harmless fusilier in the corner over there?
     
  8. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    i meant when he is using holo 2, an active hacker is entitled to know which one is the real one so wont even waste orders that way.

    like i said i dont think holo is useless by any means, just way over costed as it seems to border ODD in cost at minimum and might even be as expensive as TO, which would be completely superior to the profile
     
  9. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    Holoechoes can pick up mines without harm. I mean it harms the echo for sure.
     
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  10. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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  11. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that's correct, their examples indicate otherwise:


    Holoprojector L2 and Hacking. Hackable Characteristic Example:
    The perfidious Interventor Morgana gets an ARO when an Order Sergeant model enters her Zone of Control. Morgana asks if that trooper has the Hackable Characteristic, and surprisingly she gets a "yes" as reply. With evil satisfaction, the Interventor declares a Hacking ARO against that model. Morgana succeeds at the roll only to realize much to her chagrin that it was just a Holoecho and not a real trooper. However, now she knows some of the other Order Sergeants are a Holy Sepulchre Knight bearing a Holoprojector L2. The game has just started.


    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Holoprojector#Holoprojector_L2_and_Hacking_Example:
     
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  12. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    that does not seem to meld with

    "
    REMEMBER
    The presence of troopers in active Holoecho state is considered Private Information. This includes their Special Skills, weapons and Equipment. However, in Holoecho state the Hackable Characteristic is considered Open Information when the trooper is inside the Hacking Area of an enemy.
    "

    the holo echo should not possess the hackable characteristic , unless we take it to mean that HI holo echoes are hackable and MI and NI are not
     
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  13. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    "unless we take it to mean that HI holo echoes are hackable and MI and NI are not"

    You got it. For the enemy, a holoecho looks like a normal troop so a holoecho of an HI unit will be hackable. This clarification is to prevent someone from saying their holoecho is immune from hacking because its just a holoecho. Doesn't work like that. If the base unit is hackable than its holoecho is as well.

    Also, as the example points out, if your hidding an HI holoprojector unit as something that is not hackable, the opponent can still ask if targets are hackable which gives away that theres a hidden holo unit.
     
  14. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Do we even know that he's getting an update? Seems possible but I would not necessarily bet on it!
     
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  15. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    I'd put a hefty bet on it
     
  16. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Is that the kind of hefty bet that later sees the bookies sending some blokes around to your house because you already, due to insider knowledge, knew what the outcome of said bet was? ;)
     
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  17. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    I certainly hope Sepulchre Knight do get something different. First I thought it was bikes due to "Equestrian" being in their title. Then people thought that a Killer Hacker Device would fit them well but the Santiago Knights got it instead. Now I honestly don't know what they could/would get. At least November is almost here.
     
  18. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    Honestly if I had control over the KotHS profile then I'd make them extremely elite, with command and control qualities.

    Like, BS 15 elite maybe even, given the faction
     
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  19. RogueJello

    RogueJello Well-Known Member

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    Ditto. With the Hospitaller's dropping in price, I'd be surprised if the KotHS don't also get a price adjustment.

    BTW, the Holo2 echos are almost as good as TO:Camo, in addition to the fact that the Knight has Stealth, which will allow him to ignore a lot of hacking.

    Also, while it might not be useful to have just one extra Joan on the field, how about 13?!?!? 4 KotHS, with Holo2, all generating 3 Joans, plus the LT. You can even move 10 of them down field all at the same time with Joan's special combined order.

    Clearly this is the reason why CB has been releasing SO many Joan models over the years.

    Just image if I had photoshop skills, and these were all Joans. :) 1ac1bbbd8024ea6ec9aa988d222eb8ee.jpg
     
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  20. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member
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    Not at all, I'd guarantee most insider trading isnt caught either