Or taking both of them since they do not fill the same role, even if they overlap a bit. What if you can't find a line of sight within 40-80 cm range for the dakini ? You have to make it walk through the board. It may then be out of your repeater network, or encounter some mines, or some short ranged fighters. Rudras is far better in the 20-40 cm range, plus with it's armor, 2 STR and built in repeater, it is better in short range. And rudras can climb well. Use dakini HMG for long range shooting, then move rudras to clean what remain hidden.
Dakinis are definitely not op, just quite well designed ;) Now let's throw some more variables into the mix. Rudra is much more survivable against templates, including mines. It can risk taking a Crazy Koala to the face to kill their controller in the same order. Rudra carries its own Repeater, as Nenyx just said, so you don't need to worry about keeping it in range of your hackers. Rudra's Climbing+ means it can get to good vantage points much faster - again, order efficiency - than Dakini. Rudra has Mine Dispenser, so it can set up the "mine 'round the corner" trick either for itself or for something else (Garuda Spitfire, for example). Dakini has its own advantages, including its much lower cost. But "cheaper" doesn't necessary translate into "more cost-efficient". They're both efficient, but in their own ways and in different situations.
Worse survival by less than 2 percentage points, once. After that the Rudras is up to slightly under 60% to wound, and the chance of taking damage drops to ~11%. Getting into the 8-16" bracket is objectively better for the Rudras.
Yeah, sure. I see MULTI Rifle being kinda useful in vanilla when there's Smoke to get it close. Although that carries a bunch of dangers on its own (Repeater is a double edged sword for our Hackers in these KHD-filled days). But still, closer-in work, yeah. Or longer ranged work with Red Fury, I can kinda see that, maybe. Again, in vanilla, OS simply has other stuff I prioritise. It's the K1 Marksman that I don't see a use for. I had hoped its repeater would be pair nicely with Asura Hacker in OS, but so far, can't make it work meaningfully enough. ... Yeah, sure. And if we remove Cover from Jotum it'll get even better!
We can easily agree to disagree about K1MR. For me it's simple mathematics; it's just as good as a Multi or RF against targets with 1 ARM, and gets better as ARM rises. Kinda; RF has the advantage of higher burst, so it'll be better against most LI or MI. So I'd take RF when expecting light forces, K1MR if I'd want a heavy unit hunter, MRifle for Jack-of-all-trades, but with lower range.
Expectations. Its simple in casual game, but for competetive play and lists against 3/5 opponents it looks little different.
Sorry, but I was a bit annoyed by adding variables in favour of Rudra on top of already favourable matchup. But you're taking one number and calling it quits. "oh, it damages high ARM better". You need to include opportunity costs for different situations all these values. How often will you fight higher ARM versus lower ARM? How much better is it in best case versus worst case? What about AROs situations? How useful is it when I face a HI link versus facing a Ariadna camo-spam? Etc.
To be fair, K1MR and MULTI rifle are polyvalent weapons that can fill in a lot of lists and perform well versus many opponents. Especially when buffed by some hacker. That on a remote that is polyvalent by design.
Yeah, Im actualy pro Rudra so far, as I said it offers nice toolset and good shynergy with rest of army. Is it SJ 2.0? Nope. Is it bad? Nope. No SWC on k1 is good argument to take it for me.
Your reference to the closer range bands was misleading at best, whether that was intentional or not. The DEP is pretty much irrelevant.
I will be running into deadly dance on the next ITS around me. I am bringing the k1 Rudra because, frankly, it is one of the best pieces we have to deal with a TAG through firepower. Is it fantastic? No. But it is good enough to at least make the oponent give though. And bs12 + marksmanship + B3 is enough to handle most other things in the active too. Like Mruczyslaw said - is it a fantastic unit? No. Is it bad? Also, no. I am finding that a lot of the new stuff on OSSSS actually fall on that place. They are good enough to do their job, and good enough to be polivalent, but they are not fantastic units in one field.
In today's game my Rudra didn't do much offensively, but was a perfect roadblock. My opponent wasted entire turn worth of orders, only taking it down with a last one.
In my game today the Rudra did not do much but I went murdering most of my enemy's army turn 1 with the asura and core link. Anti frost v4 ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 10 ASURA Lieutenant L2 Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, AP CCW. (2 | 72) DAKINI Tacbot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 21) DEVA (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 33) DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13) DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13) CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12) SHUKRA (Chain of Command) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25) DANAVAS Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Maestro) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) PROXY Mk.2 MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 24) PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) RUDRA K1 Marksman Rifle, Mine Dispenser / Electric Pulse. (0 | 42) 6 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army
Also with Climbing + you should be able to get most targets out of cover for the first shots at the very least. It feels fine as a solo attack piece that can engage anything with decent odds, but then again some of my favorite attack pieces in the game are CSU's.
Thinking about it, the Rudras would fit perfectly into Druze Bayram Security. They don't have a 2W mini and besides HMGs and MSRs not much dedicated to pierce high ARM targets and nothing with climbing plus, and the Link Team tends to hog the SWC.
It's not quite a Su Jian (for which everyone thanks whatever deities they believe in), but it's pretty mean. I'd rather have a Rudra than a Shang Ji, for example.
Comparing with Shag Ji is kind of unfair. Who would want Shang Ji? They wait for sectorial and link options. I made list optimized for Rudra Rudra ────────────────────────────────────────────────── GROUP 1 10 APSARA (G: Jumper Level Z) Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22) DAKINI Tacbot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 21) DAKINI Tacbot Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 15) DAKINI Tacbot Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 15) DAKINI Tacbot MULTI Sniper Rifle / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 21) DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13) NETROD . (0 | 4) NETROD . (0 | 4) SHUKRA Lieutenant (Strategos L1) MULTI Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27) RUDRA K1 Marksman Rifle, Mine Dispenser / Electric Pulse. (0 | 42) GROUP 2 5 1 PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3) PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) PROBOT Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25) DANAVAS Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Maestro) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 4 SWC | 300 Points Open in Infinity Army Shurka - If Im 1st I use counterinteligence and still got 10 orders for Rudra. If not, whatever happens happens, aro is strong (EVO + Lamekh + Rudra + Daikinis + stuff). Cheap Strategos + some fighting skills if needed + biometric visor seems like good skillset. Daikini link + Deva - self explanatory I believe;P Aspara - boosting Daikini link. All of them. Since turn 1. Without spending orders;P K1 Rudra - ranges + k1 shock. Our little star Proxy 1, 2, 5 - 3x specialist, engineer to fix all those remotes, TO camo hacker, and mk5... Self explanatory again;P Lamekh + warcor - great cheap ARO Danava - for white noise for rudra/marksmanship/pitcher. EVO - double burst in ARO for rudra and lamedhs. Reroll for all those damn hackers in list;P With high willpower, mobile repeaters and pitcher its quite useful. ALSO it has baggage, so more mines for rudra, yaaay!;) My second list was same, except instead rudra/evo/danava I got nagas minelayers and Dart. (because I dont need evo/danava support for rudra without rudra;P ) This list is toolbox. I feel weird not using aall of my SWC, but its OSS:P Rudra did great job, she can take punch and shoot quite well on good ranges. I enjoyed playing this list. Even if Rudra is dead, there are still Daikini and posthumans. Woud I play this list more? Dunno. Its nice toolbox but I miss Garuda or other strong fighting pieces like Rudra. And board control like Nagas. Rudra can do a lot in this list, but her support is quite expensive. I will get Beyond box, but for now I will look for something more optimised. Dont get me wrong, Rudra was real devil, but I feel that those points (for her and her support) could be spend better. And yes, I used all of it. K1, mine dispenser, white noise, hacking, everything.
