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Rosie

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by Disko King, Feb 23, 2018.

  1. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    which would be all of them.....because its generally the only thing going for them.

    dont think of them as "rifles that pay range for ammo"

    they are more like, multi-pistols
     
    T. Rex Pushups likes this.
  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    You mean besides their dirt-cheap price and ability to be scarier than a Combi Rifle in suppressing fire?
     
    #42 Hecaton, Mar 10, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
  3. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I too use SF on my Assault Pistols all the time.

    If SMGs were Multi-Assault Pistols, I think that would be legitimate and still strong. As it is SMGs are a way for CB to artificially lower the price of a unit. They give it an extremely effective weapon that costs less than a worse but comparable weapon (Combi Rifles).

    This is fine; because SMGs are reserved for deliberately buffing particular troopers in the same way as particular combinations of skills (Marker State + SSL1 + DTW for instance).

    But arguing that they're 'appropriately priced' because they're just a 'better pistol' is disingenuous.
     
  4. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    You want to give me b4 smgs.......
    Or b5 scots guard smgs....
     
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  5. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    Infinity is currently at a point where people would rather their soldiers have submachine guns than carbines/assault rifles. Let that sink in. That's fucked and it should be fixed immediately. SMGs are an 80s/90s meme that died forever when M4s got good.

    SMGs having all this special ammo is half way to 40K, next stop you have two Gattling type cannons described as having a high rate of fire, only one is assault 4 with the high rate of fire represented with rending, the other is heavy 20, and next edition the heavy 20 one gets rending because high rates of fire rend.
     
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  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Pretty much. I see people pretty high on them because they're for the most part better than Combi Rifles and cheaper. Drop the ammo types, instead give some of those elite Aleph units AP SMGs if they want to keep that...
     
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  7. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

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    The reason for the apparent discrepancy is abstraction IMO.

    I've always assumed that in infinity 1 B didn't equal 1 round, and DMG was at least partially based on how that affected the likelihood of causing injury.

    For example, lets take a 'burst 2' semi auto pistol like Glock 17 or a Beretta M92 , lets say a decently trained shooter in infinity can fire about 3 or 4 shots a second (which is honestly a bit high unless you're Jerry Miculek) without just pumping the trigger and hoping to hit based on volume. Now lets look at the versions of those pistols that come with a fun switch, that we'd call the Assault pistol in infinity the glock 18 and M93r. Both have rates of fire well over 15 rounds per second, up to the low 20s depending on a few foibles of the ammo and maintenance. In fact they were designed to fire fast enough that several rounds would be fired before the recoil of the first one had fully thrown the point of aim off, so if you get 1 hit with a burst you're actually quite likely to get 3 or 4 hits. So instead of translating that to up to 5 times the burst value,which would basically guarantee winning F2F the designers chose to raise the burst a little, and up the damage as well.

    But how does that account for SMGs? SMGs in general have longer barrels than pistols, ignoring the special purpose extreme ends of the spectrum like long barrelled target pistols like the Glock34 and short barrelled SMGs like the MP5k. In general when dealing with a firearm longer barrels with the same cartridge mean faster bullets. Depending on the design of the bullet this can have one of two effects, first with a solid bullet the round will penetrate deeper, and will defeat barriers more often. IE it will go through things better. Things like armour will be pierced more easily, so in game we'll call that "AP". The second effect, If the round has some kind of cavity or weakness built into it to cause expansion on impact, that expansion will happen more reliably, and will possibly cause fragmentation in the wound channel, leading to higher instances of incapacitation, which are best represented in game by the Shock effect.

    TLDR: You can justify anything with enough bullshit and a passing familiarity of ballistics...
     
  8. Káosz Brigodéros

    Káosz Brigodéros Vanguard, Inc.

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    Them 360 visors in addition to sweet-sweet SMGs.
    @cazboab 3-4 shots per second is not extraordinary. Even I can fire a Glock 19 2-3 shots per secound with a relatively good chance of hitting the target relative to careful (that is 1-2 secound) aiming and firing. And I am by no means a good shooter...
     
  9. MATRAKA14

    MATRAKA14 Well-Known Member

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    The smg should be burst 5 with 10 dmg maybe some special ammo Idk.
     
  10. TriggerPuller9000

    TriggerPuller9000 Poverty Orde Wingate

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    Rosie is actually pretty interesting. I tried her last night in Vanilla Ariadna. Opponent was playing JSA.

    I reserved her, then deployed her in a position to rocket one of my opponent's Impetuous bikes, catching his Rui Shi in the blast. The Bike managed to escape unscathed but the Rui Shi was taken out of action. The combination of decent BS, a nice Impact Template, and Forward Deploy L1 allowed me to eliminate a super dangerous unit in my opponent's turn. This specific positioning wouldn't have been possible with another unit since I couldn't have deployed it in cover, so Forward Deploy L1 was actually quite useful.
     
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  11. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    the more I work her into my game plan the more I like her, she makes a top notch 6th grunt meaning my Lt Lgl can sit out of hte link and take pot shots for free again.
    and dogged+SI is a really rocking combo for a Dire foe, especially coupled with ARM3
     
  12. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    SMGs are fine and good, but Combi-Rifles are still better for the active turn because range.

    And in a link team, I'd rather have a Combi-Rifle because of exactly the same reason, plus no suppression so the inferior range of the SMG actually is quite rough. They cost as much as LSgs and are about as good, potentially if they were 1-2pts more that'd be fine as well. But even if I wanted all my line troopers to have SMGs (I don't) it aint an option for the vast majority of factions so it's nbd.

    Rosie seems great, happy birthday Ariadna you cave dwelling little scallywags.