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Riotstoppers versus Camo Markers

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Section9, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/BS_Attack
    The user employs his BS Attribute (or that specified by the weapon) to fire upon one or more enemies.

    Is an enemie's mine or an armory's door an enemy?
    I thought you can shoot at them?
     
  2. Ayaxs

    Ayaxs Crane agent, Yuandun division.
    Warcor

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    "Place the Template down when you declare the Attack to determine what the Attack affects"

    Equipment with a Wounds or Structure Attribute can be affected.


    http://infinitythewiki.com/es/Armas_y_Equipo_de_Plantilla#Armas_de_Plantilla_Directa
    • Plantilla Directa de Lágrima (Chain Rifle, Lanzallamas, etc.): Debe colocarse el vértice de la Plantilla de Lágrima (Punto de Origen/Blast Focus) en contacto con el borde de la peana o de la plantilla de Silueta de la tropa que declara el Ataque, y todas las tropas que se vean afectadas por la Plantilla sufrirán también el Ataque (ver Gráfico).
    That part is just to emphasize that all troppers under the template are also affected by the attack (not only the target), not that only troopers are affected.
     
  3. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    @Arkhos94 can you put this in the list of questions?

    Edit: just the bit about if adhesive hits reveal camo, not the other random musings.
     
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  4. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    So you found a definition of 'trooper' in the rules?

    To me it seems that anything with a (troop-) profile is considered a trooper.
    And mines do have a profile...
     
  5. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    There's a long outstanding question about what to do if a mobile piece of equipment such as a crazy koala is hit by adhesive. Since they don't have a PH value, it's not clear how they should attempt to make the same. Not that they have a PH of 0; they simply do not possess that attribute.
     
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  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Troopers are capable of spending orders, which mines can't and therefore can't be Troopers.

    Keep in mind the Deployable trait makes mines targetable by attacks and skills, such as Flamethrowers, but that doesn't mean they are necessarily affected by those attacks or skills partially or fully, such as in case of Forward Observer causing Targeted state which does nothing against equipment like a Mine.
     
  7. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Rather easy:
    If you lack the attribute, you cannot save, so you are hit.
    Like a crit, where the attribute does not matter, too.

    Can an Auxbot spend an order?
    Why is it a trooper and a CrazyKoala running around with it's controller isn't?
    Being able to spend orders does not convince me.
     
    #27 daszul, Aug 28, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
  8. Ayaxs

    Ayaxs Crane agent, Yuandun division.
    Warcor

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    http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/CrazyKoala
    http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Traits
    http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Perimeter


    Because a Crazy Koala is defined as a Weapon (not a trooper), with the deployable trait (wich makes it a independent element with a profile and targeteable by attacks and skills) and the perimeter skill ( wich makes it activate wich each order of his bearer)
     
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  9. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    So i need to learn spanish to play this game?

    That quote doesn't help. If the first part of the rulestext allowed me to ignore the bulletpoints under it it would open hundreds of holes.



    If you want to convince someone use this one instead that i found:

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Template_Weapons_and_Equipment

    "Area of Effect
    The Area of Effect of a Template is the area it covers with a single declaration of use. For example, if you declare an Attack using a Template Weapon, all troopers or targets in base contact or inside the Area of Effect of the Template are affected by the Attack declared."
     
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  10. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    How about we define it as something with a troop type? LI,MI,HI,REM,TAG....
    Crazy Koala, mines, and even imetrons/net rods lack these classifications while an Auxbot has the REM tag.
     
  11. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect

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    Sometimes Spanish speakers have to learn English to play this game.

    Unfortunately there are sometimes inconsistencies between the two languages and until differences are identified and FAQed, it's not clear which takes priority.
     
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  12. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Yep. There are some hideous issues with trying to declare Reset right now.
     
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  13. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Do you have an ulterior motive with your questions that you'd like to share?

    Auxbots are defined as Troopers because Ghost: Synchronised calls them troopers in almost every single one of its numerous bullet points and additional rules (if board games had a set of universal unwritten rules, this would be one of them "the rule of the exception - a game element conforms to the game's rule set unless it specifically has an exception"). CrazyKoalas running around are also troopers (for ARO purposes)

    Now, if being able to spend orders doesn't convince you, then I don't think you'll be convinced of anything in this game, because that's the fundamental definition the game gives us on troopers. (And then it goes around forgetting about the Definitions and Alignment rules in a few cases when it over-uses "Trooper" when it should use "enemy", "miniature" or even simply "target", but that's actually a different issue - a serious, different, issue)
     
  14. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    I just hoped to find a clear definition of what is a trooper and can be targeted with riotstoppers and affected with riotstoppers...
    Seems like I have to wait for N4 and hope for the best.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Nah, it lets you hit them with Guided Ammo, though there's a lot of people against the idea.
     
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  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    How is this unclear? There's a definition in the rules which is actually very concise and precise. You just always have to apply the very fundamental game logic of "unless told otherwise" and with Synchronised and Servant we are told otherwise as well as with Perimeter Weapons we are told otherwise for ARO purposes only.
    You might not like it, but that's your personal opinion and not in question here.

    http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Game_Elements:_Terminology_and_Alignment
    • Trooper. Game element with a Troop Profile, which belongs to the Army List of any player, capable of spending Orders as well as declaring and receiving Attacks.
     
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  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Now, that's that other issue I was talking about.

    Under Targeted, CB uses "Trooper", while under Guided, CB uses "target". They need to pick one and be consistent
     
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  18. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    That's pretty much it. Plus, Sat-Lock + Guided is, in theory, the order-efficient counterplay for camo tokens, but losing the efficiency by accidentally revealing a mine which you can't hit is lame.
     
  19. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for showing me this definition that I was looking for.
    What I don't like is not this definition,
    but the feeling that there are quite many loopholes, inconsistencies and uncertainties in its application.

    Being able to shoot at a CrazyKoala with a riotstopper,
    but being unable to affect it,
    is just one example.
     
  20. gregmurdock

    gregmurdock Extremely Beloved Member

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    The FAQ ruled that a PHY -6 roll from a Riot Stopper attack doesn't reveal a camo token. OK, fine. So my camo token is glued. How can my engineer "repair" it since troopers cannot move into base to base contact with camo tokens?

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Camouflaged
    -Troopers cannot enter base to base contact with a Camouflage Marker.
     
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