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Returning to PanO - Help Update Me

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Manoleeto, Jun 23, 2018.

  1. Wombat85

    Wombat85 Well-Known Member

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    Which one of these is TO?
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    The one that came out of hidden deployment as a TO camo marker, whichever one my opponent decided that was.
     
    chromedog likes this.
  3. Wombat85

    Wombat85 Well-Known Member

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    Incorrect earlier in the thread I said it was fist pump girl, not sure why you weren't able to keep track of that. Having two profiles represented by the same model load out is just confusing, I'm definitely with Tom from Mayacast on this issue, but you do you. I have made my point.
     
  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I don't know who Tom from Mayacast is and frankly I don't really care about him or his opinion. Clearly I was taking your question in a general sense, but if you want to deliberately misrepresent the discussion to try and claim some perceived moral high ground, by all means.
     
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  5. Wombat85

    Wombat85 Well-Known Member

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    You already did that through a passive insinuation that its the opponents fault if they cant remember which one came out of TO. I think the burden lies on the model owner to show which model is which, that this order sergeant with combi is a missile launcher, this order sergeant with combi is TO, this order sergeant with combi is a medic, this order sergeant with a combi has a Sniper rifle, ect. You think the burden is on the opponent to know everything about your list and keep track of all information from the moment it is revealed to them, like I said you do you.

    Side Note: Mayacast is the gold standard Infinity podcast and you should give it a listen as it is very enjoyable to paint to.
     
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    It is completely their fault if they can't remember, which isn't that hard, and then when they can't remember, don't ask their opponent to clarify which one was TO. The information is public, they are totally capable of asking for a quick reminder.

    On podcasts, I don't listen to them. I find them long winded and boring.
     
  7. Wombat85

    Wombat85 Well-Known Member

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    Unless you have memory issues, or get confused due to medication, but by your argument they shouldn't even be at the table and providing them with any visual clue that two models are different is more than they deserve. Are you also a player that ONLY provides open information when the opponent remembers to ask?
     
  8. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Playing with someone suffering from a concussion or for some reason is heavily medicated is clearly a pretty unlikely occurrence, and if you've put yourself in that position I would assume you are obviously going to take further steps than normal to help the game run smoothly.

    However, considering that people aren't expected to model or paint their armies to satisfy unfortunately handicapped opponents, they're free to do what they want there. I wouldn't expect someone to have to physically model weapon profiles that don't have existing because they might one day for some reason play an opponent who is high as a kite on cough syrup.
     
    #28 Triumph, Jun 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  9. Wombat85

    Wombat85 Well-Known Member

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    You would be surprised. I'm Bipolar, I take medication that someday's leaves me confused, gives my hands shakes. I always open with my opponent and let them know before we start. If all your models are identical load out, and you want me to stop and identify every single piece every time I move because you haven't done anything to help the game flow, in a tournament setting bet your bottom dollar I'm going to flag you to the TO for intentionally creating a situation to delay game-play.

    Like I said, I have made my point, I think different loadouts should be visual in some way when its on the table. We aren't going to agree on this issue so I will bow out here and not respond further. Your way is right, you win, insert whatever you want here so you feel you have won.
     
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  10. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    While I would make an effort to help you if we were playing, if you were to complain to me as a TO at one of my events about your opponent's models creating an intentional delay, I would tell you it's your own problem unless your opponent had put something stupid like Hello Kitty Space Marines on the table or something.

    Expecting your opponent to paint TO Camo onto a model is unreasonable from my perspective as a TO. If you have a handicap situation, such as this bipolar medication, it is on you to bring your own aids to solve the situation, such as markers or tokens to place next your opponent's models to track things like TO if it is extremely difficult for you.
     
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  11. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    Double Post Ignore
     
  12. Manoleeto

    Manoleeto Member

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    Wow, my attempt to save money by not having 16 Order Sgts, half painted TO and half painted normal... and making the assumption of my opponent's basic competence has really exploded here eh?

    If CB made a set of TO versions of the Order Sgts with combi's I would buy those. They do not. Likewise, I am not modeling two different units with the same model... I am modeling all the -same- unit who have different loadouts. This isn't a case of me proxying Fusiliers as Swiss Guard while at the same time proxying Fusiliers as Aquila Guard. This is literally me using Order Sargeants to represent Order Sargeants. Likewise... the OP, that is me, never claimed to have 18 Order Sargeants all mixed in randomly. The list is -literally- ALL Order Sargeants in TO. You basically point to -any- model besides Joan de Arc and yes it has TO.

    I commented that I wanted them all with combis because going forward I will want to start fielding them as normal Order Sargeants once I have expanded into full heavy infantry MO lists with knight link teams and etc. In those cases, I am not going to be fielding 27 point Order Sgts as cheerleaders... they will be just normal line Sgts, and luckily because I didn't do something ridiculous like paint them all in TO camo colors, I will have eight of them with combis to fill in my roster around all the expensive Knights.

    In a game where there are literally -hundreds- of models and loadouts, assuming responsibility for if my opponent knows what all our models are is insanity. If this was a discussion of pretending my six identical fusiliers were all various types of Hexas and Orc Troopers, then yes... that is not being considerate of your opponent, and only a jerk would try to play that without an opponent's permission, but come on, how is it not inconsiderate to demand people paint/model their units in a way specifically for the benefit of their opponents? I need to buy double the Order Sgts to accommodate the possible infirmities of random people? The victim privilege mentality these days is insufferable.
     
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  13. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    Differently posed, painted and based is all it'd take to make anyone who isn't a full on experienced PanOceania player think they are different models anyway.
     
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  14. Manoleeto

    Manoleeto Member

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    Hey guys, looking to order one or two of the Joan models, and I have a question about the models themselves that I can't really find any answers online. I used to own the 'limited edition' Joan with her scabbard in one hand, but the newer model looks even better in my opinion except for one small problem. She has traded her 'tactical rock' for a 'tactical corpse'. As a model that is totally cool, but I very often theme my bases and I am not keen on Combined Army corpses on my bases since I rarely if ever play against them.

    Is that dead CA guy's hand and arm sculpted to her leg, or is it a separate piece I could potentially not add? I can't seem to find an unboxing or picture of the pieces of the model.

    Additionally, I realized while looking through our model range, that we have zero females in the new Heavy Armor sculpts. We have Swissmiss, and LadyOrcs, but other than Joan, not one updated HI sculpt for a female model. This came to mind as I looked for a female HI holding a rifle with the thought of giving Joan a more 'tactical' rifle armed pose, instead of the 40k style sword to the sky inspirational pose. Cool pose as a model, not really in theme for the way I play or paint my models.

    Anyways, I didn't see any modern female heavy armor, am I wrong and there is a merc or special edition model somewhere wearing PanO heavy armor that is female?
     
  15. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    First of the arm of the umbra is part of her leg. They are not separate pieces. You need alot of work to get that off.

    For female HI we got the magister knights. That is the only new female HI model.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Manoleeto

    Manoleeto Member

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    I was under the impression these guys were Medium Infantry. Additionally none of the lady Magisters have a rifle in hand, but that sword in scabbard on the Missile Launcher is a separate piece I could add to a rifle armed Joan so she still shows her sword.

    Thanks for the information about the dead alien. I potentially could do parts swaps between the two Joan models with some cutting and green stuff, but I might just accept the fact that she is always purging the alien heretics.
     
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  17. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    Magisters are most definitely Heavy Infantry. They're a staple of Military Order play, so it's worth taking the time to get to know them.

    As for the issue of modeling TO or not... Leave the TO Camo token next to the miniature in question, if it's so confusing what's what. Make sure the token is in base contact with the miniature, so noone gets confused and thinks it's a separate unit. Both markers and courtesy lists are very, very helpful for solving problems. Most Camo Tokens are numbered, so you can also note down which number corresponds to which unit on the table.

    None of these things are difficult... You just have to be willing to do a little record keeping.
     
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  18. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

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    The parts from the new Joan fit the ltd. ed. version just fine, I've just used the MR arm so she's in a classic "Purge the heretic!" pose, though after assembling I decided I'd have preferred the long hair head... oh well, I'll go back and fix it one day.
    Joan (less ltd).jpg
     
    #38 Cartographer, Jul 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
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  19. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant

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    Very clean. Looks good.
     
  20. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Srsly, MO has a 2 TO profiles on single only unit. If someone had ever played against MO once or twice should know what it can be.
     
    Golem2God likes this.
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