While telling everyone they are avoiding the issue, you sure like to avoid common sense and everyone telling you exactly why. Dodge is getting out of the way of something and/or physically moving. Unless Parry involves special rules about stunning your enemy or getting rid of their CC weapon all you're doing is getting out of the way of something/ physically moving. It's the same thing. "Oh look, he's raising his gun, better dodge to try and get out of the way." "Oh look, he's attacking me with his sword, better dodge to try and get out of the way." Physically moving isn't going to help you in a face to face situation with computers attacking your computers. Yes, you can dodge out of the hacking range possibly, but that's not going to help against the software that's currently attacking you. "Oh look, he's raising his hands to hack me, better dodge to OH SHIT IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT!" Trying to combine two skills that work off of different attributes Vs different things because you don't like how life works doesn't sound like a good thing for this game to me.
True, they could ARO CC Attack. But I'm not very concerned with other choices atm. It's about giving me choices that are virtually meaningless. And from the perspective of someone who wants to avoid the attack, the options you are given to do so, might as well not even exist.
From a purely game mechanical point of view, I prefer the idea of forcing bad decisions on the reactive trooper as a sound strategy - which leaves me in the camp of preferring Reset and Dodge rather than a single Evade. I have no problem at all with the thematic decision between reset and dodge either - for example: The enemy trooper comes into threat range and your troops have to make a decision as to what to do, they could furiously start resetting their armour to prevent a hacking attempt or dodge behind a wall to avoid being shot. The enemy trooper sees the enemy either ducking for cover or their hacking device shows the enemy signal rapidly resetting - they can make a decision as to what they're going to spend the next few seconds doing. The reactive trooper would absolutely be resetting their system before being hacked, because if they waited until afterwards then it would be too late - or presumably be trying to cancel that immobilised status (i.e. with their next ARO or order).
Do you avoid bullets and missiles by running out of their way? That's a fine physical skill to use when these things are all on a set trajectory. Try that when someone is already ontop(base to base) or running at you. Most trained troopers know how to follow you, keep you from running, or stab you in the back. I agree, physically moving isn't going to stop that hack. So it's a good thing my suggestion doesn't actually suggest anything of the sort. That's not how Reset works though. If you reset before the attack, your system is just rebooting. The hack is still going to take effect. For a reset to serve a purpose it is done to eliminate the invasive program currently causing you problems.
At some point it's an abstraction. Face to face rolls don't really hold up to scrutiny in general; it's really about game mechanics.
@Balewolf I'm really tired of debating how something is dodged. It's meaningless to my point. Do you want those situations, where a Dodge or Reset declaration results in you doing nothing and facing a normal roll, in the game?
I think that's the real question, and it relates back to how divisive forced ZoC AROs are. Different people have different (strong) opinions on what the correct answer to that question is.
If anything, ducking and weaving to avoid getting stabbed would be far easier than matrix dodging a bunch of gunfire, but both feel like the kind of pulpy action stuff that this game was made to evoke so the distinction seems pointless.
Yes, it's call serpentine/ducking/diving. I can see the next suggestion coming now. "Guys, I don't like it when someone has a template weapon and a gun and I have to decide to either dodge to avoid the template or shoot and eat the template. Shouldn't we just combine dodge and shoot?" If you consider ignoring a large portion of the debate to be meaningless, I guess I'm starting to see how you think. If you ignore how things really work (lets roll that in as ignoring the fluff and realism) and ignore the in game mechanics (separate attributes, different types of weapons/equipment) then yes, why don't we combine all the rules into one or two big rules and we could play Yahtzee with D20s. Yes, I do want situations where mixes of units, equipment ranges and LoS will create normal rolls. Forcing your opponent into making bad choices is what it's all about. You can do it in active and reactive. Lots of units are based off of the ability to do so. You even get to know the odds before it happens, so it's not like you're clueless and randomly pick one. I can play plenty of other games that require almost no decisions on the battlefield to win if I want.
Yes. If you want to avoid these situations, may I suggest models with Sixth Sense, Mines, Chain Rifles, MSV2, Veteran, Engineer, Doctor, Blackout, Chain Rifles, Camouflage, Airborne Deployment, Holoprojector, Neurocinetics, Perimeter, or maybe just bring your own Muttawi'ah?
I agree. I was hoping to reach a stage where those in favor of it realize there is a point this type of game play would harm their whole game experience. From there we can debate why it should or shouldn't exist, or to what extent. And personally, I'm not adverse to having these no-win situations within Infinity. But I feel there are better ways to do it that don't feel so ridiculous. If you actually understood the discussion you wouldn't make that assumption. Both of the choices you're describing actually allow my trooper to do something. Dodging a jammer does nothing.
LOL. Asks question, doesn't get the answer he wants, continues to ignore what he doesn't want to hear. It's another troll thread! You should probably take a break and come back when you can come up with more of an argument than, "That doesn't matter." and "I'm going to ignore that." At least it's not another "Facts" thread that is based on opinion.
Dodging a Jammer gets you a potential 2+ inches of movement that can be used to gain LoF on the enemy, escape their ZoC, hide from enemy firepower, etc.
I assume you are referring to the fact that declaring Dodge might influence my enemy to declare the jammer attack instead? I'm fine with this kind of choice, it's picking the lesser of two evils. But why hide it by making me dodge bullets that weren't fired? Can we not come up with a better solution? Coordinated attacks can be used to accomplish this. Actually make a trooper get attacked by a jammer and gun fire at once. Then they must decide which will be the normal roll.
There have been a number of previous posts making great points on why the system currently is the way it is and the nuances that would be lost if Dodge/reset was changed to a catch all "evade". all ignored. Some people just don't want to hear the other side of things. ultimately threads like these are pointless because opinions don't change and feelings get hurt.
