Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Stiopa, Dec 15, 2017.
The solution to that suffering is a Black Friar ;)
TBH Pathfinder is still better (discovering standard cammo on 16s) while you look only on "discover" aspect (plus sensor skill).
BF is good unit (wished sniper had albedo ;/) but for some other reasons (MSV2 with weapon which can hurt Shikami/HacTao/SteelPhallus/Anathematics etc.)
I think it is done willingly. Yu-Jing has already Sensor in its link possibilities (Zhanying) and REM in links already exist (Unidrons in Onyx).
Nothing new guys, just that it uses a PanO REM just for lore. It could be a Nomad or a Yu-Jing one and it would never change anything.
I really don't see why you're crying. Onyx is one year old and I don't remember anyone complained at this moment.
As someone who plays both Pano and Onyx, the reason CA players don't complain is that CA sectorials have some great link team options. For some odd reason, CB stiffles the creativity in Pano's sectorials. Our link options are very limited and its unclear why.
I think it is a bit artificial. I think PanO is seen by CB as the "By the Book" army. With few things exotic and very little mix allowed.
Even if it seems that CB is trying to change this a bit with the Blizzard Forces.
The fact is, we are really powerful at shooting. So, if you give flexibility in addition, the lack of balance is easy to catch.
And I'm a PanO only player. But the more older I am in the game, the more I see that our limitations are not nonsense.
We are not the only ones who have odd limitations. Aleph and the lack of spammable powerful long range plateforms is one of them.
1D4 chan nailed it with this joke but it holds true for the whole faction:
Thats why I also enjoy the Combine Army. None of these weird limitations non-sense.
Mighty +1BS argument, here it goes again.
That's why Hospitallers are so great. They are usable ORCs :D
(because of "frenzy problem" that is, but at least it's not a PanO only "problem")
Pathfinder + 2 Fugazi Haris. Great for dropping sniffers and sensing out areas, maybe too good?
Pathfinder or Clipper in a Fusilier link. Pointedly making fusiliers links more expensive, but gives different options.
Special Haris REM that lets you create a haris with any 2 MI. Create a REM profile that has the haris rule and allow it to link with 2 bolts, 2 bagh,2 nisse, 2 Kamau.
I don't get it. You don't like pan-o; is that it?
More like hes bitter over the unnecessary limitations forced on Pano. It leads to a lack of diversity in the faction. Our sectorials haven't added much to our generic army unlike the rest of the factions which have gained some great additions. This leads to the same units being used over and over again.
At the very least, what Eciu wants is some variety in our units. At least the knights give use some nice HI specialists, if a tad expensive.
If you played Pano 10 years ago, your probably using the same handful of units in generic Pano. Thats the great thing about Pano's sectorials, they bring a diversity of playstyle and units. The downside is that generic Pano is the most generic faction in the game.
Ah. That old chestnut. Isn't there a separate complaint thread for that sort of thing? I'm not sure that the hyperpower needs people evangelizing their misfortune at every opportunity.
Any who, way off topic. Thanks for the input, Death. I was worried I'd missed something after some inactivity.
As someone who linked Teutons and accompanjed them with a seperate mukebot before they were nerfed, this would please me greatly.
Nothing says "Come on if you think you're hard enough" like three BS14 HI sitting on an objective with infinite Panzerfasusts.
More or less this. I really don't like argument "PanO get +1BS" so that's all it need for a fun play (mind word "fun").
After playing NCA for few months I've only lost 1 game (more due to my willingness to try out Squalo HGL). It's really not a weak sectorial, but I would love to have good reason to play Bolts (or Bipandra xD).
In MO it would be great if they could do something with Teutons, and make KotHS mayby a tid bit "special" well designed, not "generic good stats" (we have FK for that) (check how Ayyar is done).
<removed so bit to snarky comment, in all we have Advent now>
tbh. as much I don't like Harris in MO they could use that... (again I don't like Harris idea in MO)
(it would be probably bit strange to have some crazy nuts link with pacificist Mulebots ;P)
And here I was thinking the REM faction was Nomads when apparently it's PanO. Also the TAG faction. Also the IP faction. And the tears faction.
Well, I played Bipandra and Bolts and Orcs in NCA. For Biotechvore, this combo is rather powerful.
Played Bipandra to have a second Doctor in my NCA list and she was MVP in my Fusilier link. And I didn't played against a new player but one of the top 10 in France.
As for the +1 BS problem...
Yes, I know, I thought it a lot before. Less now. We have some flexibility, a lot in fact, but it cost a lot and ask us to not use the troops of comfort. We are used to streamline profiles and troops that are ones of the best if not THE best in one thing. Then we have more toolkit profiles that seems less efficient while being pricey. And when it comes out, some people can't stop complaining. Those guys should look at Crane which is just an overpriced ORC just because of the toolkit he is and that it would use maybe three times in a game or maybe not at all.
The only exception in this is the BF MULTI rifle but I have some doubts about the fact that Drop Bears had a discount on him and cost the same as AP mines instead of 1 point by Drop Bear.
Bolts and Orcs are good even in Vanilla, just for the possibility to disguise a KotHS in three of them to hide a Cutter or a Swiss and one Croc or AD.
KotHS won me games last days just because my opponents didn't expect it and really thought I was playing a Swiss and a Kamau (in Rescue, it makes sense).
I find Teucer more useless in ASA than Bipandra in NCA for example. But it is personal, one day, I'll find out how to play this guy.
I think I've stated somewhere that main "advantage" of KotHS is that it is so unused that people do forget that he even exist ^^ (srsly I had 3 opponents surprised that MO had holoecho or could deploy 2 Joans, but again it's "once per enemy player" trick)
And even if the unit does perform semi well it doesn't immidietly mean that's a good unit/well designed interesting one (Infinity being sometimes a strange game when even most "useless" scrubs can surprisingly became MVP of the match)
And I lost Joan to 2 AROs from SF Zero and I'm not saying that Joan is a bad unit/profile :)
You are telling me that 3 MR ORCs in vanilla didn't seem suspicious to your opponent ? Really ? (and obviously you mix equipment on holoechos)
Or he doesn't pay for his CCW (tbh he would probably be better with so missing knife in MO :P )
Steering back to the topic:
The point about PanO being "professional" and therefore not getting a ton of mixed links has merit. Though I'd argue that having REMs in links is actually highly professional, moreso than a bunch of mooks following a sword-swinging senior leader around in the same way as Imperial Service. Having your standard troops train and interface with support REMs seems like the epitome of modern, professional army. Similarly, deploying squadrons of synchronized REMs is ultra PanO. A Pathfinder/Fugazi Haris sweeping through the jungles of Paradiso, clearing the way for a Bagh Mari link on a search-and-destroy mission? That just screams PanO to me.
As for Nomads being the REM faction... I'd say that was an N2 thing. That moniker was applied years ago, and the game has changed a lot since then. Now, Nomads are the "we have one of everything" faction, the "yeah, we have a unit that does that" faction. They have a clever solution to any tactical predicament, as long as you bring the right combination of units.
That argument I will wholeheartly support once PanO will be allowed to just bring regiment of Uhlans to table 'cause fluff&reasons ;)
So smoke+hacker+pitcher+impetues WB ?:P (which usually can be done by taking 2 units :P)
Well, the rest of my post suggests that REMs in PanO links are a great idea.
Let's look at the existing precedent for CB giving a REM to a link team:
-CB is willing to give link bonuses to a REM, but only a Burst 1 REM.
-The main function of that REM (guided missiles) basically doesn't really benefit from link bonuses, though CB did create a secondary missile profile to give this option more flexibility and appeal.
-The other REM members are fairly expensive, certainly more expensive than basic min-cost line troopers.
-The Standard Hacking Devices for buffing that REM are both 20+ points, more expensive than a min-cost line trooper with Standard Hacking Device.
So based off that, it suggests to me that either CB wouldn't want PanO min cost line troopers to receive REM buddies, or they would only want linetroopers to receive REMs that are less effective/less devastating in combat.
Which suggests to me:
-Fusiliers/Regulars/Order Sergeants with Fugazi/Pathfinder link options only.
-Clipper, but it would only linkable with a higher-cost Medium Infantry choices to charge an associated point tax with being able to field such a strong piece.
So it would be an option for Bagh Mari, Nisse, or... Bolts?
Did we just discover the future of Bolts?
Kind of odd, since the Clipper is long-range and the Bolts are happiest at short range, so they might not combine really well. But given that Clipper/Pathfinder/Fugazi are all cheaper than the cheapest Bolt loadout (which is kind of a sad realization, isn't it?) and that the biggest problem with Bolts is their cost, maybe this would be a functional way to improve on them. I'd be more inclined to field Bolts if a Pathfinder could be part of the link, use its 6-4 MOV to skirmish, Discover and combi fight while the bolts plod slowly forward, and also let the Bolts effectively carry a Repeater with them for my Hexa KHD/Swiss AHD to use.