1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Remotes and Jump/Climb/Ladders

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Dreilide, Jun 16, 2019.

  1. Dreilide

    Dreilide Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2018
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    49
    Do remotes have any specific exclusions when it comes to movement and ladders, or the long skill movements (jump/climb)? I've had it come up in a few games, but I can't seem to find a concrete answer here or scouring the wiki. Thanks in advance!
     
    Wolf likes this.
  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,755
    Likes Received:
    4,242
    Nope. They can do all 3.

    The only point that needs discussing is ladders can range from quite narrow to quite wide so it's worth discussing if a ladder can support a 40mm base, a 55mm base or just a 25mm base.
     
    Hecaton and chromedog like this.
  3. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    467
    Likes Received:
    444
    Scenery is the section you want. As noted above access points (ladders typically) need to be discussed.

    Access Width (AW)
    This indicates the dimensions of a Scenery Item—or part of it—that allows troopers to pass through, such as a doorway, a window, etc. There are three possible Access Widths:

    • Narrow. This ingress point is only wide enough for troopers with a S Attribute of 2 or lower. It is marked by a Narrow Gate Marker (NARROW GATE).
    • Wide. This entry point allows all troopers to pass through, regardless of their S value. It is marked by a Wide Gate Marker (WIDE GATE).
    • Cargo. This ingress point allows all troopers to pass through freely, regardless of their S value and the Heavyweight Special Skill. It is marked by a Cargo Gate Marker (CARGO GATE).
    All Scenery Items with access points must note their Access Width on their profile.
     
  4. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,755
    Likes Received:
    4,242
    Ladders aren't access points.

    It's more that it's incongruous that a narrow rickety ladder supports a TAG and you can argue that the TAGs base would not be fully supported by the ladder while the TAG is one it.

    But taken to the extreme many ladders are less than 25mm wide, so an S2 models base wouldn't be fully supported by the ladder anyway.

    So using the access point rules to help define the table isn't a bad way to go about it, but ultimately it's not RAW: like many things regarding a table it requires discussion.
     
    Robock, xagroth, Bobman and 1 other person like this.
  5. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Messages:
    914
    Likes Received:
    751
  6. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,818
    Likes Received:
    4,663
    I think the ladder needs to be wide enough for a 40mm (or 55 mm) remote base. Most ladders are just for S1/2.
     
  7. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,004
    Likes Received:
    9,438
    There's nothing in the rules that says the ladders need to be wide enough for a base. After all, if a Motorcycle can use one...
     
    Robock, Errhile and chromedog like this.
  8. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,755
    Likes Received:
    4,242
    Moving up a ladder is a Move. The base must be fully supported by the surface the Trooper is moving over.

    [​IMG]

    This ladder is ~25mm wide and a 40mm base would overhang the ladder and not be fully in contact with the surface the S3/S5 trooper is moving over.

    Personally I'd probably allow 40mm or less to use them, but RAW my Reaktion would need to use C+ to move up the wall, not the ladder.
     
    #8 inane.imp, Jun 16, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
    Tristan228 likes this.
  9. tox

    tox SorriBarai
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    1,618
    Likes Received:
    1,722
    I'd like to remind you that almost all of the ladders printed on official scenery packs DO NOT support even a 25 mm base.
    I suggest to always discuss the case before a game
     
  10. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    467
    Likes Received:
    444
    MOVE: STAIRS AND LADDERS
    Those pieces of scenery representing stairs and ladders allow to move vertical or diagonal surfaces using the Move Skill at no cost, without declaring Jump or Climb.

    Its what I've been using all this time. /Shrug
     
    Bohrdog likes this.
  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,004
    Likes Received:
    9,438
    The printed ladders on all the official scenery are about 20mm wide, so by RAW even a S2 trooper cannot go up them.

    Or you say that the ladder is on the surface of the wall, and the wall is wide enough to fully support even an 80mm base.
     
    chromedog likes this.
  12. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,818
    Likes Received:
    4,663
    Awkward. Yeah, this is something that could use a more clear rules focus from CB.
     
    chromedog likes this.
  13. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,755
    Likes Received:
    4,242
    Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying the strictest reading RAW would indicate (if you're being supported by a wall and not a ladder, then you should be climbing). Moreover, you'll also note that the example I showed had the surface of the ladder offset from the surface of the wall: they're distinct.

    I'm not at all suggesting that the RAWest interpretation is how it should be played but it is the point of departure. Rather, I'm saying that it's reasonable to conclude that not all ladders can support models larger than S2 and that is one reason why you should discuss terrain with you opponent before deciding the Lt roll.

    This is a ladder, you could easily model one (or a similar one) onto a table. I would allow S2 or smaller to climb it, but not larger.

    [​IMG]

    On the OP:IS / Op:RV terrain I think it's reasonable to disallow 55mm bases from using it, a TAG climbing a 20mm wide ladder is incongruous. If my opponent suggested that 40mm bases couldn't use it I'd probably be ok with that as well (although I'd probably counter-offer that in that case we should use destructible terrain as well, nobody ever lets me use destructible terrain rules :'( ).
     
  14. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    3,755
    Likes Received:
    4,242
    I honestly have no idea what your response has to do with my statement, am I missing something?
     
    Hecaton and chromedog like this.
  15. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    852
    Likes Received:
    1,011
    I think @Papa Bey may be referring to the way ladders in Infinity seem intended to function. They seem more a symbolic representation of a special route - one that allows normal movement along its length, regardless of the verticality, than as a piece of scenery that’s trying to model reality.

    After all, if CB wanted ladders to be more realistically and consistently modeled in the game, they could’ve drawn them 25mm wide on their own scenery.

    My different groups have always played them that way, too - as symbolic routes. I do make a point of getting agreement before we start, and usually suggest that any unit can use them, but if the unit wants to get off the ladder, then the scenery must be wide enough to support the base, as usual.
     
    #15 Wolf, Jun 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019