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Religious to grant Vet L1?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by RogueJello, Jan 2, 2019.

  1. REND

    REND Well-Known Member

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    Going back to the original post.

    It could be argued that it would make sense for Religious troops to gain skills similar to those provided by Vet lvl1 but is definitely not the same as it being good enough justification for a change like this to be made. One thing I may have missed being discussed about the religious rules is that (just as with courage) it allows you to ignore the retreat status which normally prevents you from attacking or performing any non-movement short skills and I may be missing some other benefit related to avoiding retreat status. It would be nice if they provided a regular order when in loss of Lt (which is what I gather is what the opener would like) but that's not the same as proving it a necessary change to resolve some problem caused by this rule.

    One of the issues with any benefits against retreat status though is simply how rare it is to matter in a game. That however can be changed quite easily with special missions or house rules to scenarios, which might be something to think about in the future.

    The whole thing about needing to pass a Wip roll in order to duck back behind cover is just the reverse of what normally happens and really just applies a different mentality to the somewhat randomness applied to when models lose fire-fights but don't die. It's not clear whether the religious rule actually costs points or not because we don't know the exact points form CB use and religious isn't one of those rules that applied to only 1 profile of a unit (as happens for equipment where direct comparisons can be both much more easily made but also cross-referenced between factions to check) so there is some doubt how it is priced. Comparing nearly identical profiles with nearly isn't quite the same as comparing identical profiles because from what I understand CB use a sliding scale for some skills and equipment combinations.


    Until seeing this thread I've never felt there was anything wrong with the religious skill. Granted, it's not a very useful skill but neither is zero-G terrain but it's still a bit of flavour to a model/unit and it does something to help represent the model on the table.
     
  2. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    Play a 400 points game and you'll see retreat trigger more.
     
  3. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    CC costs aren't actually off.

    The intent was, I think, to make Zhanshis 11pts and Order Sergeants 13pts because access to 10pt line troopers was something the Sectoral was not supposed to have, but in order to get to that costing they used something that isn't that efficient. I think people are taking it the other way around, Zhanshi weren't planned as CC 14 Alguaciles that came out at 11pts, they were planned as 11pt Alguaciles that came out at CC 14 because you have to give them something to increase the cost.

    Similarly, the Alguacile pays 1 SWC for it's LT option. Why? It's so completely arbitrary over the Zhanshi?!? Because CJC and Nomads are not supposed to have 10pt 0 SWC LTs for whatever reason (probably because command and gucci command skills and the lack thereof are a Nomad weakness) and therefore they set that SWC 1 LT cost as what it is.

    Religious is fine, Veteran L1 is fine, CC costs are fine.
     
  4. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Highly unlikely.

    I've played since 2006 (yes, that means N1).

    Aguaciles are the 'standard' LI trooper, Mobile Brigada were the standard HI (they didn't have the LFT in N1).

    PanO got -1WIP and +1BS (compare Fusilier to Aguacile and ORC to MB).
    The YJ 'faction advantage' was +1CC (compare Zanshi to Aguacile and old Invincible, now Wu Ming to MB).
    Haqq got +1WIP and RIfle+LSG instead of Combi, plus actual Doctors instead of Paramedics (Compare Ghulam to Aguacile and Janissary to MB).
     
    RogueJello likes this.
  5. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I'm aware, and I too have played the game for a long time. Since early N2 (which was more N1 revised IMO).

    Part of YJ's balancing is that they don't get 10pt Alguaciles they get 11pt Zhanshi, who have a 0 SWC LT and +1 CC for the privilege.

    And as a Nomad player, you'd better believe I'd take Zhanshi over Alguaciles in a split second for that 0 SW LT, absolutely. But Nomads don't get that, apart from on the Securitate which are slightly pricier as baseline troops. And good! 13pts, but good! But everyone recently is a big fan of complaining about why they don't get Fusiliers, or whatever. And I think people forget that factions are balanced by what they can't get as much as what they can.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  6. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Except there's a formula for one of these things and the other is just eyeballed.
     
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    paraelix, Section9, Abrilete and 4 others like this.
  8. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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  9. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    It's correct, because Religious says:
    • Troopers with the Religious Troop Special Skill are unaffected by the Retreat! rules, acting normally until the end of the game.
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  10. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Solar, Cartographer, Section9 and 5 others like this.
  11. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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