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Reject Human Sphere, Evolve to Monke - The Morat Tactica Thread

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by DaRedOne, Mar 24, 2022.

  1. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Not just MAF. Sectorials are very vulnerable to alpha, due to concentrating their troops and having lots of units without defensive tech.

    Being in a team allows for full PH dodges, but how else does it help defend Kornak from GML?

    I'm shifting towards Pretas haris over datz haris too for a bunch of reasons;
    • They are cheaper
    • Smoke has diminishing returns on multiple models
    • CC has diminishing returns on multiple models
    • Shotgun is a very scary attack weapon, much better than chain rifles
    • Dogged chains are better deployment guards in many situations, particularly against bears.
    Both Datz and Preta haris is good, but I'm finding myself inclined towards the Pretas for a team, and the Datz for solo aside from a single Preta. That single preta is a dogged chain reserve drop for shit like Uxia, and also can be that silver bullet you need to access that one midfield guy on his one rooftop someplace.

    However, I am a bit wary about two teams. Four orders lost in LoL is a lot more than I usually lose, and our lieutenants are not exactly hard to take out.

    This all said, I still like Datz teams. I feel they attack better in certain circumstances, due to the better CC, and they are less reliant on any given member while the datz themselves are more resilient (surprisingly so) than a Oznat because of mimetism and +1 PH.

    I'm of two minds on this one. Its a lot of points and has to earn its value, yes. But if the rest of the army is good enough, you can get away with not moving it until later in the game. How I conceptualize it is as four Vanguards and a Suryat HRL. Then most of the unit changes are just 7-8 point upgrades over a Vanguard. Upgrade a Vanguard to a HRL Kaitok for 8 points but don't be aggressive with it? No biggie.

    How are you finding the Dartok? I just don't hugely value hacking so have never even used him. That might be part of how I don't mind keeping my castles back.

    I'm still going with my original analysis; haris is good, core is overkill. His role in core or haris is almost the same (smoke and shoot things that rely on mimetism to be good), and the targets are almost the same, and the chance of unlucky death by crit or jank rolls is almost the same. Being in the core obviously makes him more reliable, and it increases his durability to being sniped due to the other members guarding him, but it really pushes that core into needing to see active use which I think its not necessarily good at.

    One thing I'm noticing in both lists, and that has come up in my own listbuilding, is that Kornak really narrows your options. He's really expensive and causes a restriction in the number of different tools you are able to bring. You end up with a huge unwieldly core (which is the basis of every Morat list lol), and in these cases, warbands and then like 1-2 flex pieces - and the MAF flex pieces I feel are a little on the weaker side.

    This has pushed me heavily into the Suryat LT + Raktorak approach. You don't spend 40 points on Kornak, who I don't like outside of his strategos, but you do generate the same increased number of orders.
     
  2. bladerunner_35

    bladerunner_35 Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t played with Kornak pretty much at all since we got the Suryal L+1.

    If you want go with a specific Alpha strike unit like a Rasyat the extra regular orders are needed but otherwise he is too expensive.

    The Q-drone is almost always an MVP for me. I never ever leave home without it when I play anything CA. Just yesterday he held is ground over several orders and when he did break down a Kurgat had him up and running next turn.

    I also find that Baggage becomes more and more important. It is amazing how Morats have upped their cyberwar game. With two linked Dartoks you get a nasty repeater net up and running in no time. With reloads from Ikadrons you can then push that net into the opponents deployment easily. For the first time ever I’ve killed hackers with my mind instead of my fist!
     
    #42 bladerunner_35, Apr 14, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2022
  3. Lesh'

    Lesh' Infinity LATVIA
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    well some sectorials have better access to cheap/good ARO units, some don't. I think MAF is somewhere in the middle.

    I was trying to say that in that particular game my opponent had no SML or pitchers, so Kornak was safe.

    yeah, I really like pretas for their price, speed and having dogged. I think datz you want to be unlinked for impetuous smoke throws. Also with Kornak you can reserve two pretas and screw a lot of folks.

    yeah, that's an issue. but at least we still have a fair amount of veterans to compensate that.

    I always preferred datz to oznats, it's just in this case they can link and advance together. But I recall sometime ago people were praising how good oznat was, before she could link, but in my opinion, I would never have taken her if it wasn't for the FTO option.

    well if it's purely defensive core then yeah, but in my case msv1 and hmg are there, so that's why I'm running into this issue. I think I need to try running suryat hmg in a haris.

    well he did ok only in 1 game which was yesterday (I've played Supplies with the roster that I've used for Supremacy, with Rindak), he managed to land 1 repeater, isolate and then immobilize hactao hmg, and then in the last round managed to kill ninja HD. But in all other games (in one game I tried shooting pitchers but both rolls failed) he was just a tool that haven't been used.

    yeah maybe haris or even solo and different side of the table with access to smoke. Need to give it a try.

    I don't know, he kinda narrows, but he's just a great deal for the buck. it's basically 1 order per 15 points with total of 3 that fit into a single slot, and now army slots are important.
    If you're going for other LTs, they either have to be active LTs (like suryat hmg, or sogarat ap hmg), and/or you need to invest into NCOs, which are kinda mediocre (raktorak) for their price, or expensive(bultrak), and overlap a bit with active LTs role (shooting).

    keep in mind that these orders can only be utilized by NCO, which limits the use, and might get you in some unpleasant situations (like hidden ARO).
     
  4. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    This is a good assessment of how Preta Haris can work, and I dig it. Never considered them this way, but I concur. Might try it out this weekend.

    I've always said Kornak is a trap and I keep my original assessment of him. I've used him a few times, mostly when I already had filled up my SWC slots and still haven't used all the points. Otherwise, I tend to prefer the suryat HMG myself.

    I think even if you ditch a Raktorak NCO and go for a more expensive one like the Bultrak or the Raicho it still is better to take a Suryat as they have a longer range gun with more burst, which helps offset their lower BS in comparison to Kornak. Besides, we got a lot of CC efficient models now, we don't need Kornak to pick up that slack when a Zabuk will do the job cheaper.
     
  5. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    I played my fourth game with new Morats today. Mission was Acquisition, against QK, on a map that had some decent ARO positions for the defender and was a number of buildings and allyways.

    I took the latest iteration of the super defensive list;

    gloFbW9yYXQqQXBlcyBmbGluZyBzaGl0IGludG8gdGhlIHJ1c3RsaW5nIGJ1c2hlcyAygSwCAQoAghIBBAAAhiUBAwAAhiUBAQAAgewBCQAAgewBCAAAhiUBAQAAghgBAQAAghIBBAAAgfgBBAAAgg0BBwACBQCB%2BgEBAACB%2BgEBAACCEwECAACB%2BAEEAACB%2FwEBAA%3D%3D

    Apes fling shit into the rustling bushes 2
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    SURYAT (Multispectral Visor L1) Heavy Rocket Launcher ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / MULTI Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 36)
    KAITOK (Multispectral Visor L1) Feuerbach ( ) / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 36)
    KAITOK Chain Rifle(+2B), Flammenspeer / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 22)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 14)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)

    KAITOK Chain Rifle(+2B), Flammenspeer / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 22)
    ANYAT K1 Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, Smoke Grenades, E/M Grenades / CC Weapon, Heavy Pistol. (0 | 24)
    SURYAT (Multispectral Visor L1) Heavy Rocket Launcher ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / MULTI Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 36)

    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    ZERAT (Minelayer) Boarding Shotgun, Shock Mines / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 25)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]4
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 7)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 7)
    OZNAT FTO Vulkan Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 18)

    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)

    5.5 SWC | 298 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I played pretty terribly to be honest, but this was also my most aggressive game with the apes (despite going second) and its been ages since I actively moved lots of linked models around the board - my other games were more campy.

    Key takeaways
    • Core blob lacks great offensive tools, which was kind of expected because of no Suryat HMG. . Between this and the unwieldliness of a 5-core it was hard to advance with this team. However a huge element of that was poor use of the team on my part.
    • Find myself leaning more onto the Feuerbach MSV1 and away from the Suryat. The question has become "how best to use my AVA 3 Kaitoks" and not "which HI ARO piece is better". A +0 rangeband and harder hitting ammo really seem to outperform the Suryat in many ways.
    • Preta/Oznat team is really effective. It felt much better than a Datz team.
    • Kaitok in Haris is a damage output monster, forking with B4 chain rifle or B4 Heavy Pistol.
    • Morat teams die like every other teams if ending their turn in the midfield. Armor be damned.
    • Zerat BSG Minelayer is not fantastic, but its better than I expected. I just wish it scored.
    I think trap is too strong a term, but I am going off of him. He rewards you for going deep on an all in strategy - particularly to push a pain train past ten orders. The Suryat NCO is both more and less effective at this - more useful for the team, worse because he forces a Raktorak. Definitely leaning Suryat HMG as my go-to LT, but in my last game I actually used the Vanguard. Yes he felt awful lol.

    Yes, but there are always (or should be at least) tradeoffs for efficiency in any given area.

    I don't hate the Raktorak in some roles. mostly added to a Datz team. In a haris I usually have Anyat pushing buttons already, and in the core there is usually a Paramedic, so he fills (or wastes) a slot without bringing much beyond that NCO.

    My experience so far has seen the Haris do tons of damage when it doesn't get attacked top of T1 and fold like wet cardboard.

    It... feels really bad to move this core. Especially with two S5s in it. I'm pretty useless with cores so thats not going to help lol, but it felt very clumsy and very vulnerable to giving random lines of fire. I pretty much threw my last game in T3 by just finding it so hard to move this core around.
     
  6. clever handle

    clever handle Well-Known Member

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    I've run variants of this a few times and had really really good success with it:

    All the bullets
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]4 [​IMG]5
    OZNAT FTO Vulkan Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 18)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 7)
    GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4)
    GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4)
    GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4)
    SURYAT (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Heavy Machine Gun ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / MULTI Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 45)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    DARTOK (Hacker) Submachine Gun, Pitcher / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 21)
    RASYAT (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, E/Mitter, D-Charges, Eclipse Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 34)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5
    SURYAT MULTI Rifle, Light Flamethrower / MULTI Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 35)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    YAOGAT Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    SOGARAT (NCO) Feuerbach(+1B), Pulzar / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 62)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)

    3.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    It has a good balance of models for completing classified and mission objectives, a ton of firepower and the ability to threaten pretty much everything on the active turn. The one thing this list lacks is ARO board presence unless you're really confident leaving your HI's out to tank shots.

    A slightly different version of the list just moves some of the firepower around and ends up with 3 HMG platforms...

    All the bullets
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]4 [​IMG]5
    OZNAT FTO Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenade Launcher / Shock CC Weapon, Heavy Pistol. (0 | 16)
    GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4)
    GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4)
    GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4)
    GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4)
    SURYAT (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Heavy Machine Gun ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / MULTI Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 45)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    DARTOK (Hacker) Submachine Gun, Pitcher / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 21)
    RASYAT (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, E/Mitter, D-Charges, Eclipse Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 34)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1
    SURYAT (Tactical Awareness) Heavy Machine Gun ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / MULTI Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 44)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    YAOGAT Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    SOGARAT (NCO) AP Heavy Machine Gun, Pulzar / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 58)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  7. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Just got two games in, and I decided to try out some fun stuff from the comments in here.

    First, I used this against Shasvastii in Looting and Sabotaging:

    imglogoarmy=14]https://assets.corvusbelli.net/army/img/logo/factions/morat.svg[/imglogoarmy]Looting
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3
    SURYAT (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Heavy Machine Gun ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / MULTI Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 45)
    RAKTORAK (NCO) Vulkan Shotgun / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
    DARTOK (Hacker) Submachine Gun, Pitcher / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 21)
    KURGAT (BS Attack [+1 Dam]) Combi Rifle(AP), E/Mitter, D-Charges, AP Mines / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    RAICHO (NCO) MULTI Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Flamethrower / AP CC Weapon. (2 | 77)
    [​IMG] RAICHO PILOT Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Assault Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 0)
    OZNAT FTO Vulkan Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 18)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 7)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 7)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]2 [​IMG]3
    OZNAT FTO Vulkan Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 18)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 7)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 7)
    Q-DRONE Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 25)

    5 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Turns out running two oznat haris is suprisingly effective. I had one on each side of the table, and by turn three I had them converged in the center to merge the survivors into a single group (ended up spending all my command tokens to do that though). Still, the option to 'throw hungries at it' allowed me to brute force my way through a minefield and just sacrifice them to kill my opponents' camoed models. Which in turn gave room for the Raicho to move in and brute force everything else.
    The main core team didn't do much the whole game, which was pretty great as that meant I had a solid 5 orders to pump into the Raicho/hungries and still had planB to fall back on the whole time.

    Second game was Unmasking vs Spiral, and I played this:

    Unmasking
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]4 [​IMG]5
    ZERAT (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, D-Charges, Light Flamethrower ( ) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 29)
    RODOK (Strategic Deployment) Submachine Gun / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    RODOK (Hacker, Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 27)
    RODOK Spitfire / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 28)
    SOGARAT (Lieutenant) Feuerbach(+1B), Pulzar / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 60)
    OZNAT FTO Vulkan Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 18)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 7)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 7)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 7)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 7)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4
    TYROK (Minelayer) T2 Rifle, Shock Mines / Heavy Pistol(+1B), Trench-Hammer(+1 Dam). (0.5 | 22)
    ZERAT (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Light Flamethrower, D-Charges ( ) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    RINDAK (Paramedic, Forward Deployment [+8"]) Submachine Gun, Flash Pulse(+1B) / Heavy Pistol, PARA CC Weapon. (0 | 31)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)

    4.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    NuRodoks are good. I had them hunt down an impersonator then move forward and cap one of the consoles on the first turn, then unfortunately I misjudged the range when engaging a linked Kiel-Saan and ate a panzerfaust to the face, which kinda put a damper on things. Still, the zerat regular hacker and the Rindak both managed to score a console each, which allowed me to locate all 3 targets and then the surviving Rodok killed one, and the hungries ran in on turn 3 to kill the other two.
    Sogarat was excelent at bullying long-range non-mimetic ARO pieces, and the Rindak really did a lot of work on turn 2 and 3, both using his medikit to res a couple models and just killing stuff in the mid table with that SMG.
    Hungries were the MVPs, though. Them being back to generating regular orders meant I had a lot of orders to pump into the rodoks in turn 1, and come turn 3 they ran the whole table to whack stuff. Most of them died on the way there, but they accomplished their objectives and managed to cripple my opponent so hard they had no comeback.

    I'm quite happy with this update, have I said that before? Because I'm quite happy with this update.
     
  8. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    I think it's solid as hell. Pretas with B2 and group movement are really useful, though I struggle to justify a Gaki in these teams so far.

    In particular these teams are harder to disrupt than the others. Yeah the Oznat can die and break the team, but you are losing cheap models who have templates and (some) CC to threaten things like impersonators.

    How do you feel the game would have gone if you had not gone first? I had a game against Jan yesterday that went about as expected, though it was aided by some brain fog and some serious dice (multiple unopposed BS15 feuerbaches doing jack all lol). I feel MAF are lacking somewhat in defenses outside of the big ARO guns, so things like impersonators who ignore those can be a problem.

    Been wondering about a Tyrok or something as a reserve piece for these matches. Currently been relying on the Preta, which is surprisingly useful but without forward deployment can't get on top of them before they begin their run.
     
    Lesh' likes this.
  9. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    I actually had to deal with an impersonator on the reactive first turn against shasvastii, and it could have been way worse.

    I knew it was coming so I deployed my core fireteam as spread as possible and with the TR bot with LOF to all of them. Then I held the raicho in reserve. My opponent didn't chance the roll and deployed just outside my deployment zone.

    First thing I did was put the Raicho as far as possible from the impersonator, as that was probably going to be their number one target. That left him without many juicy options to kill, and in the end they only took down a raktorak before being pinned between the Suryat on one side and the TR bot on the other. Come my active turn I sent the hungries in for the kill.

    My opponent did play conservatively on that game, but I think if he had played more aggressively with it he'd have killed maybe 2 models before going down. I really had deployment locked down tight thanks to a large spread of templates and high burst weaponry.

    Plus, having that command token to put the raicho in suppression also helped, as I knew the one option he had to come at it with the impersonator and could prepare for it.

    All in all, I think one side effect of the fireteam nerf was the return of stuff like TR bots. My opponent tried to brute force his way in with Sheskiin against the TR, but without the extra BS to counter his mimetism she was firing 5 shots at 12 against my 4 shots at 11. It ended up being a major order sink for him and even managed to cause a wound on sheskiin with a lucky win on the FTF roll. Then come my active turn I sent the raicho in for the kill.
     
    Savnock and clever handle like this.
  10. WiT?

    WiT? Well-Known Member

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    Game today with some cool shit in it I figured I'd share some highlights from. I played MAF against a newish player on JSA, trying the apes at Unmasking. I used the "Apes fling shit into the Rustling Bushes" list I posted earlier, which is based around multiple MSV1 ARO pieces to try and survive going second.

    He got first, and did not attack with Shinobu until T2. He moved a Domaru haris up the side of the board, putting it in a position where I could attack it with the Feuerbach with 0 rangeband but no cover and +1B - but he rolls rather badly for about four orders and achieves no effect. A Domaru dodged close enough for chains and took him out in one double volley while he continued missing.

    [​IMG]

    So I said fuck it, and ran the Kaitok chain in, but the dodges were hot and the pistol shots were not and he got engaged (I opted to risk short distance, due to low orders). So I said fuck it again, and ran in the Vanguard LT, a Preta and the Oznat into the biggest brawl I've seen in a long time.

    [​IMG]
    (they are all inside smoke. KO Kaitok feuerbach to bottom left. Monkey HVT to top center)

    Oznat runs in with her Preta friend, he ARO CC on her, and I can either F2F with four CC18 attacks or direct them through the bug. Naturally I choose the chad option, and naturally he crits needing 19s to do so. The domaru spitfire dodges into the ensuring melee.

    On opponents turn, Neko opts to berserk the Kaitok and takes a bite as well as a boot from the Kaitok and the Vanguard. Kaitok evaporates, and the boot from the Vanguard takes him down. Kaitok outright dying gives the datz room to get amongst.

    [​IMG]

    When the dust settles, there is only a Vanguard standing tall over the broken bodies of his enemies. But one of the Domaru was not quite fully broken, and a suicide run from a Keisotsu medic gets him to stand back up. he dives behind a truck, dodging an unlinked Suryat HRL but then getting nailed by the Vanguard and going down again.

    [​IMG]

    The bugs go all aliens on us and charge up the building with dodges and impetuous, and end up pinning a Ryuken-9 in place and coming out of the walls to eat her face off!

    This is pure jank, but its also something a Taigha creature could not pull off. Still doesn't make up for it being so much better than them in CC, but I'll take what I can get.

    [​IMG]

    Finally, towards the end, I needed to cautious move Anyat past an MSV to take the central console. But pesky Yojimbo had dismounted and set up camp there - no caution allowed. Enter the Vanguard LT, who nailed him with his LT (and only available) order, allowing Anyat passage and so putting me up a button and then later up a second decoy kill for a big VP swing.

    [​IMG]

    Elsewhere on the table and not pictured - Zerat BSG nails a Ninja who revealed to ARO at a poor time. Shinobu walks effortlessly through a Kaitok/Anyat/Suryat link and a Datz to gank a Suryat, then dies. This seems to happen a lot. HI SWC profiles constrain enemy movement despite Yojimbo smoke.

    Key takeaways;
    • I've been really disappointed with the Kaitok SWC across mutliple games. The dice have been rough, and have legitimately been a part of it, but I have also struggled to use the core team when it runs into the 8-16 rangeband. I haven't actually liked the Kaitok chain for this, finding him very high risk high reward where I want something more consistent.

    • Core team definitely needs a dedicated attacker if wanting to like, actively use it. Suryat HMG is not fantastic within 16 but five dice is a big improvement. Maybe Yaogat Spitfire and Anyat? Kaitok Breaker? (anyone used this?) Kurgat BSG for forking with drop bears?

    • The centerpiece Morat haris vs Domaru haris fight would also have gone a lot different with a Dartok hacker. Still have not tried this.

    • Vanguard clearly OP. That one dude did more work than anyone else in the list, and more work than every Vanguard I've ever seen on a table in a decade of play. I know these guys are not great but a combi in the right place, especially in a team without other 8-16 options, is an actual asset. The LT should not be disregarded as an option though it is painful to take.

    • Daturazi are amazing and consistent. I am struggling to find things that work consistently within MAF so that reliability is a real asset.

    • Haris teams with valuable models in them are fodder for impersonators, ninjas, Uxia etc. Its very hard to stop the attack run, however I do feel you can quite reliably tax a few orders or trade with the attacker in many cases. Feel like downgrading to just preta or datz teams might be a good option.

    • Overall, MAF can be quite fun and quite capable if you can not get alpha strikken off of the table T1. So the quest to achieve that remains the goal.
     
    #50 WiT?, Apr 25, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2022
  11. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Since I started this game back in HSN3 I felt MAF had a weak ARO game and I don't think it has changed.

    What HAS changed is that now our active game actually hurts. And this is a big deal. I cannot stress enough how we can actually brute force through problems now, perhaps for the first time. This does mean MAF wants first turn almost all times and it also means we can overextend easily, so it's always a balancing trick of when to stop advancing and setting it up to weather your opponents active turn.

    But we have options now! And suppressive fire is a skill that should never be underrated. A lot of our models become good at it thanks to either high armor or mimetism or just putting out a lot of high damage shots. I noticed a single well placed monke in suppressive will easily become an order sink
     
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  12. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Made an update to the OP with some considerations on the models.

    In special I have to point out Immunity: crits makes the Raicho surprisingly good at tanking warbands as long as they don't have EM weapons. High Armor and rolling less saves means the enemy has to spend more orders, and every now and then you win that FTF and WHACK them with an DAM17 AP punch, which is kinda hilarious
    (Seriously, I punched out a thaigha in ARO in my last game. It was funny)
     
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  13. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    My Raicho got critted in the face just yesterday evening. From a Combi. While in Cover. LoL.

    The flexibility of Fireteam Composition is a very distinctive feature, at the moment. I like it and I home it won't become a standard.
    Yesterday I lost my Yaogat MSR to a bad roll from a MABH Red Fury and the option to get Anyat on board, reform and start actively using Gazarot has been a blessing.

    The other real plus of Morats is the amount of equipment. Vanguard apart, all of the profiles have something. And that is a real blessing if you don't forget while playing. Now they really feel to be ready for anything could happen
     
  14. ayosup

    ayosup New Member

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    Raicho's got Immunity (Crit) but with a lot of MAF stuff getting sleeper buffs like these it's quite easy to miss. I recently played a tournament and it slipped my mind that Suryats have AP Immunity and that cost me quite a number of F2F!
     
  15. tox

    tox SorriBarai
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    And that is why i laughed. HARD. :joy::joy::joy:
     
  16. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    This is something I'm trying to get used to, I was playing PanO for years and need to get used to this novel concept of "additional weapons and skills" MAF units have :P
     
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  17. Metal730

    Metal730 Well-Known Member
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    Got 2nd in a 3 round 35 player event a few weeks ago and wanted to share my lists for anyone interested!

    I really enjoyed this Frostbyte list, I played 2 practice games before the event and I won both as well as the event. The terrain was a big factor in the win, we played on the large Aristaeia dome. Opponent won initiative and opted for going first and I was able to pin the zuyong link behind the Suryat HMG & HRL (Core) and I put the Kaitok Flamenspeer in a Haris also standing. Once his ZY HMG went down the rui shi was out of 24 and a sitting duck. Shoutout goes to the rindak who burned 8 orders on his own just dodging bad range shots from the rui shi.

    Frostbyte
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9
    SURYAT (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Heavy Machine Gun ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / MULTI Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 45)
    SURYAT (Multispectral Visor L1) Heavy Rocket Launcher ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / MULTI Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 36)
    KAITOK Breaker Combi Rifle, E/Marat / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 31)
    RINDAK FTO (Paramedic) Submachine Gun, Flash Pulse(+1B) / Heavy Pistol, PARA CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    ANYAT K1 Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, Smoke Grenades, E/M Grenades / CC Weapon, Heavy Pistol. (0 | 24)
    RAKTORAK (NCO) Vulkan Shotgun / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
    KAITOK Chain Rifle(+2B), Flammenspeer / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 22)
    DARTOK (Hacker) Submachine Gun, Pitcher / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 21)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) Light Flamethrower(+1B), Flash Pulse / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 9)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]6
    OZNAT FTO Vulkan Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 18)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 7)
    GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4)

    3.5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    I've been trying to give some good use to all of our new stuff since the update which is why I didn't bring a Rasyat as I've used them a lot since early N4. I left it at 14 orders for some mind games but wanted to give new rodoks a fair go. I didn't like them, overall they would've been much better as an FD rindak, Tyrok or both. I'd also have preferred an oznat haris which is much more useful than the spitfire.

    I tied on Supremacy vs a Starco guided missile list. I could've gotten a win if I had played better but we were over time and I got sloppy. Mindwipe was a landslide win against a great Shas player. He made 1 big mistake taking a shot with a spitfire caliban vs the kaitok and he actually lost the ftf and died. I was able to clean up all of his other pieces that could destroy the server after that and then march the datz haris up.

    MW/SUP
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]8 [​IMG]2
    SURYAT (Lieutenant [+1 Order]) Heavy Machine Gun ( | TinBot: Firewall [-3]) / MULTI Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 45)
    RAKTORAK (NCO) Vulkan Shotgun / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
    KAITOK Chain Rifle(+2B), Flammenspeer / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (0 | 22)
    DARTOK (Hacker) Submachine Gun, Pitcher / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 21)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    RAKTORAK Red Fury / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 26)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]5 [​IMG]1 [​IMG]1
    RODOK Spitfire / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 28)
    RODOK (Hacker, Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun ( ) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 27)
    RODOK (Strategic Deployment) Submachine Gun / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    ZERAT (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Light Flamethrower, D-Charges ( ) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 27)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) Light Flamethrower(+1B), Flash Pulse / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 9)
    GAKI AP CC Weapon. (0 | 4)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Final Thoughts:

    I'm one of those crazy people who will march a big 5 man link up the board wherever I need it to be and these sort of lists demonstrate that. I have been so impressed with the Rindak & Kaitoks every time I take them, they are incredibly good for my playstyle. I absolutely love having the Oznat/Preta/Gaki haris. It's fast, it's useful and it trades up so effectively. I'm finding myself taking less and less REMs and more Morats and this was actually a huge factor in my ability to win/tie these games. I lost my Lt in 2/3 games and in both cases I was wholly unaffected and had great turns for both scoring and killing.
     
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  18. Lesh'

    Lesh' Infinity LATVIA
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    I think I'm gonna write a report/review my rosters that I've used at a 2-day tournament in Stockholm, Sweden (you should definitely keep an eye for their tournaments, great location, awesome community)

    Overall across 5 games I came 7th out of 16 players, 3 wins(OSSS, Haqqislam, Yu-Jing) and 2 losses(Nomads, ALEPH).
    Fun fact, out of 16 players there were only 3 sectorials - 2 MAFs and 1 OSSSS.
    If anyone wants a specific matchup report, let me know.

    I've used this roster for
    While My Guitar Gently Mindwipes 1.1
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]4
    DARTOK (Hacker) Submachine Gun, Pitcher / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 21)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 14)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    KAITOK (Multispectral Visor L1) Feuerbach ( ) / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 36)
    YAOGAT MULTI Sniper Rifle(+1B) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 35)
    OZNAT FTO Vulkan Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 18)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 7)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 7)
    BOUNTY HUNTER Red Fury / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 15)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6 [​IMG]1
    M-DRONE Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 16)
    Q-DRONE Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 25)
    E-DRONE Combi Rifle / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 18)
    DĀTURAZI Chain Rifle(+1B), Grenades, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 14)
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit, MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 22)
    SLAVE DRONE PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    RASYAT Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Eclipse Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 32)

    6 SWC | 299 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Code:
    gloFbW9yYXQkV2hpbGUgTXkgR3VpdGFyIEdlbnRseSBNaW5kd2lwZXMgMS4xgSwCAQoAhiQBAQAAgewBCAAAgewBCQAAgewBBwAAhiUBAwAAggYBAwAAghMBAgAAgfoBAQAAgfoBAQAAhh4BBAACBwCB%2FAEBAACB%2FQEBAACC5QEBAACB%2BAEEAACB%2BwEBAACCDgEBAACCBwECAA%3D%3D

    and this one for
    Kill V. Maim v1.1
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6
    DARTOK (Hacker) Submachine Gun, Pitcher / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 21)
    KAITOK (Multispectral Visor L1) Feuerbach ( ) / Heavy Pistol(+1B), CC Weapon. (1.5 | 36)
    KORNAK (Lieutenant [+1 Order], Strategos L1) Mk12, Light Flamethrower / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 45)
    YAOGAT MULTI Sniper Rifle(+1B) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 35)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 16)
    MORAT VANGUARD (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]7 [​IMG]3 [​IMG]4
    BOUNTY HUNTER Red Fury / Breaker Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 15)
    IKADRON (Baggage, Repeater) Light Flamethrower(+1B), Flash Pulse / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 9)
    R-DRONE Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    M-DRONE Combi Rifle, Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 16)
    Q-DRONE Heavy Machine Gun / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (1 | 25)
    E-DRONE Combi Rifle / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 18)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 7)
    PRETA Chain Rifle / AP CC Weapon. (0 | 7)
    OZNAT FTO Vulkan Shotgun, Smoke Grenades / Heavy Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 18)
    MED-TECH OBSIDON MEDCHANOID Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit, MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 22)
    SLAVE DRONE PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)

    5 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Code:
    gloFbW9yYXQSIEtpbGwgVi4gTWFpbSB2MS4xgSwCAQYAhiQBAQAAhiUBAwAAghYBAwAAggYBAwAAgewBCAAAgewBBwACCwCGHgEEAACCFAEBAACB%2FwEBAACB%2FAEBAACB%2FQEBAACC5QEBAACB%2BgEBAACB%2BgEBAACCEwECAACB%2BwEBAACCDgEBAA%3D%3D

    My main roster was Kill v. Maim, and I've just altered it a bit to suit countermeasures and mindwipe.
    General idea was that I had a defensive core with Kaitok with msv1 and fuerbach, linked pitchers to deal with hackers/TAGs, and Kornak's backup mk12 gun. Yaogat, despite technically being spare core member, was always on the other side of the board, acting as a solo model to pick off ARO through smoke (either linked smoke grenades from Oznat, or Oznat and Daturazi in second roster). With this setup you've got 6-8 order in this group if you're going first, and that's pretty much enough to deal with long range AROs with either Kaitok FB, or Yaogat MSR. Yaogat acting as a solo helped me quite a lot.
    Kaitok with msv1 is quite crucial in my opinion. MSV1 doesn't allow enemy to easily walk up to you using smoke, and sturdy enough to soak a lot of orders from the enemy.
    In second group I had q-drone with e-drone to put supportware, and act as a back-up gun and/or ARO, depending on the enemy. Due to remote presence, chances of just falling unconscious are good, and it can be easily repaired.
    Oznat haris lost it's charm a bit for me after the tournament. Issue is that it's still risky to bypass mines (dodge on 11, no shock immunity), only way to create a fork for opponent is to reach melee (either CC attack, or 2 chain rifles), effectiveness drops significantly when your spearhead dies, cause all preta has is just a chain rifle. And they don't impose that big of a threat if left nearby. Not to mention that after they're gone, you're down 3 orders. Defensively they're kinda ok, I guess. We'll see how it goes, I'm thinking of switching to kaitok+kaitok+dartok haris, as it's beefier and should be way more difficult to dismantle that. But that's just theory crafting, gotta get some games first.

    Overall I like MAF, they got way better than they were. Still plenty of issues, but at least now "aggression" in MAF feels like an actual aggression.
     
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  19. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    I think we should separate 'drawbacks' from 'issues'

    I don't think this current iteration of MAF has a lot of actual issues. I can cite some stuff such as some profiles feeling out of place (most of the yaogats, that vanguard lieutenant, etc) and one or two models being just WTF (I'm looking at you, Bultrak). And if I'm really pedantic, I still dislike how some the models look way more armored than they actually are (Vanguards look neat tho).

    That being said, the army does have some drawbacks, and I think those are perfectly acceptable within the context of what it is:
    - We get flexible fireteams, but we also need to husband those resources carefully or they die for nothing;
    - Our ARO options are limited and often rely on those fireteams above;
    - Our midfield options are all weird and kinda work, but not like the rest of the midfiled options in the game, so it's odd.

    All in all, learning these drawbacks helps play the army better.

    In particular, I like the preta haris exactly because I can just throw them at stuff without fear. Eating one mine is good, but doing a suicidal move-dodge or even move move to trigger several of them at once at the cost of a single model is something I'll never get tired of doing.
     
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  20. Aspect Graviton

    Aspect Graviton Friendly Alien Overlord
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    Some thoughts on having played most of my games since the update with morats:

    I am the strongest advocate of Panzerkreig you're going to find but I've used a Raicho in only one of my last ten games as MAF (technically twice as it was a double raicho list), it's still baller but I've been having too much fun with plug and play links.

    Kaitoks are a general lynchpin unit to dispense cheap violence up close, great profile thus far

    Rindaks: the dance off kings, I've used them in links but generally I use a multi rifle as a forward solo.

    Yaogats: the SWC profiles or LT are in 50% of my links, since links are determined at deployment the spitty and the MSR tend to be divided between haris or Core dependant on whether the core is going to be static ARO defense or aggressive.

    Kyosots: Worth losing the 3 man composition bonus, first time I used one it died instantly to a HMC on a szally, but since then they've been consistent high performers, killing consistently up the food chain.

    Dartoks: Auto-include. single handedly makes MAF playable, he pushes the putton, he defends the tag, he deletes the brain.

    Kurgats: drop bears in an aggressive link, ran double autocannon in a core, it was hilarious, it did well, still would not suggest.

    Zerats: I have finally started using Zerats the inflitrating multi marksman suppression fire via command token trick has thus far worked well.

    Tyroks: mixed bag of results, some excellent games some less so the less so was generally let down by dice to dodge or CC, while it certainly has good stats for both it has minimal modifiers to make rolls reliable. in my opinion a fine unit.
     
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