Yes, 5-6 basic orders for the reinf. tags are fine, but currently with 100pts you can only deploy Chain or command Maximus and another single model with no order bonus, so we're talking about 2 regular orders plus tactical awareness of the tag, too few, unplayable.
Yeah, tags in reinf are in a bad spot really. They're undergunned and underfuelled with orders. All they really feed into is the zone scoring game if you drop on the last turn which is boring and largely uninteractive with your opponent
Not all reinf. tags, just Maximus. An NCO Squalo in duo with an engineer Blade has a base of 5 orders, plus 1 additional order if the lieutenant has LT +1 like the MO Commander.
Wait, you mean 2 regular, 1 Tac Aware, 1 Commlink trooper, and possibly 1 Lt., correct? I get 4 orders base on a TAG, possibly 5 with the current build. That seems fine. Especially if you let the opponent kill a Marut to trigger that LoL. 5 base, possibly 6 would feel a bit better IMO. Seems like adding a 13-point reinforcement profile for Daleth is a good idea. That allow non-CoC Maximus to have 5 orders -and- not have to worry about him getting 6 orders (which would start to be a little too high on a TAG that deploys midfield).
Not sure I agree. 4-6 orders of already-midfield TAG stomping is plenty to take out a key piece of your opponent’s. More orders than that would be out of band big time. There seems to be a target 4-6 order max for TAGs in Reinforcements in any build I can find. That seems quite wise.
Guess I’ll test this Lizard build in my next Reinf game: Lizard Spitfire HFT 64 / 1.5 (TacAware) Jelena Kovacs 23 (TacAware) Stempler 13 Plus Moderator commlink dweeb. 6 orders, seems plenty to kill a couple things and then drop into Supp Fire.
Yes, if your commlink trooper is still alive when the reinf. enter (in most cases it will happen in the last turn), and if you LT is dead (only for the chain of command version). Otherwise you invested all your 100pts of reinforcements in 3 measly orders. As I wrote before, there are too many variables. The fact is always the same, there are too few orders for Maximus, and the 13pts daleth makes no sense, because that the most valid version of Maximus is the one with chain of command which costs 76 pts.
Sure, your Commlink trooper could die before Reinforcements come in. So could any unit. Keep them safe, it’s not like they’re serious combat troops or even a high priority for the opponent to kill. As for the CoC profile, yeah it’s better. But part of good design is having multiple competing good choices, not just one obvious pick. So if they added a 13-point Daleth, there would be an interesting choice between 5 orders or 4 and CoC.
4 if the commlink is alive, otherwise 3. Frankly, if I want the Maximus profile without the chain of command, I take the non reinf. Maximus, so I can play it at the start of the game with the entire orders pool, but it won't happen because we have profiles definitely superior to Maximus for the main group. The only reason to play Maximus reinf. Is the chain of command. Like every player of Pano will take the NCO profile of the reinf. MKII Squalo.
You say that, but the few times I took it I came to the conclusion the grenade launcher would be the better choice, the multi markshman on the other hand is not cheap enough to bring any extra orders. Maximus, I am not sure the Cain of Command is worth it, it s not guaranteed the reinforcements will come the moment you loose your lieutenant, and Aleph has good choices for Chain of Command in the regular list, of course if you play a list that guarantees your aggressive lieutenant death will trigger reinforcements Maximus Reinf Chain of Command is not a bad option.
The obvious choice is because you have a specialist tag, not so much for the chain of command. The profile without chain of command has nothing interesting, Aleph is full of better profiles.
Arunja can not join Maxi because its no wildcard. I would take the non CoC version and add a Artelis Engineer or Sopho or even Arjuna BSG with gives you 2 reg, 1 TA each and Arjuna is a 6_2 mimetims specialist. While Maxi does the shooting, Arjuna does the clicking. One more order from Comlink and another possible from the O-12 rules in ITS 15 (but beware its tricky in vanilla - you have to keep an close eye on your CTs). Anyway Maximus in RF is a bit tight on orders - maybe just play him regular and add some of the new LI with STR ;-)
I understand this. I was suggesting changing the fireteam rules to allow the Arjuna FTO to natively fire tree am with Maximus, basically the same thing you proposed as well. Two guys with Tac Aware in a fireteam plus the Commlink trooper’s order makes 5 orders, a pretty decent amount for a TAG which deploys midfield.
Considering that the cost of the Maximus chain or command is 76pt, you cannot play it with the arjuna which costs at least 29pt, therefore it would not solve the problem, given that, as already mentioned, the chain of command version is the only interesting one for Maximus and therefore the only one who may have a chance to see the battlefield. Otherwise will be always choose the combination of the new reinf. REMs. Best option is give NCO to every reinf. profile of Maximus, increasing costs by 4-5 points (I don't know the price of NCO). In this case there would be 3 Maximus orders (also considered the lieutenant's order for NCO) and a fourth given by the second reinf. model. This way Maximus would be playable even if the commlink model died before the reinforcements entered. In the case that the lieutenant is dead and Maximus become the new LT, the order is not added to the profile with chain of command because would cancel NCO. I think it's the most balanced choice. But I honestly highly doubt that the CB will change anything in this regard, so talking about it further I find it rather superfluous.
You keep insisting that the CoC profile is the only useful option. It is not. You can build better Reinforcements sections for specialist coverage. A TAG is mainly taken for wrecking face. And no, giving him NCO is not the only or best answer. Adding the Arjuna to the link achieves the same with more bodies.
That is fair point, though he is specialist when he goes out of the TAG suit, it is still a rare option for this to happen.
No. Because by giving NCO to the basic profile of Maximus, all the available options of Maximus would benefit. With your idea of giving the wildcard to the arjuna only the option of Maximus without chain of command would benefit, because you can't put the chain of command Maximus and Arjuna in 100 points. To make the choice more attractive, in my opinion, instead of being based on the number of orders (which are already too low) the profile without Chain of Command should have a second weapon, like a zapper for example.
I would consider only the actual possible variants. Maximus will not gain NCO, Arjuna will not be a RF wildcard. So take him with one useful piece or take his regular version. I will be testing both variants as soon as I have him and painted him ... so it will take a while ;-) On the table it would be challenging to drop him early. I looks like the poster boys of endsong are not in the best spot for promoting reinforcments.
So let’s ask this in the abstract, @archon and @The Holy Knight (and anyone else who has an opinion on it please): How many orders should a TAG appearing in Reinforcements get? (Ie appearing on the halfway point of the board with no AROs to stop it getting there) What seems like an order count that will give the TAG some effectiveness, without making it a complete unstoppable rampage? Is it 6-7? 8-9? 10+? Or 4, 5, or 6?
