Redesigning 'Shock'

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by daszul, Mar 19, 2019.

  1. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this 100%. Simply having AP "half ARM (round down)" instead of "half ARM (round up)" would make AP a lot more interesting and make the choice between AP and shock harder
     
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  2. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Because having your 40 point NWI CC specialist die to a knife crit is lame, basically. They gave Kornak berserk, but when's he gonna use it when the opponent can just one-shot your expensive character and probable Lt like that?
     
  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    No. People typically don't consciously choose to include shock weapons in their force - they get it dirt-cheap on smgs and mines. And if I could pay less points for a non-NWI version of Umbra, or a cheaper Malignos without the Shasvastii rule and the automedikit, I would.
     
  4. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    If you use berserk, that can happen. You haven't to use berserk. That's the risk you are taking. If you attacked, it's your personal fault.
     
  5. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It begs the question of why paying 40 points for a trooper that dies to shock is worth it.
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    If you're using Kornak against a Zhanshi that's a 1-in-4 you're just gonna have to accept, and you must be in a pretty dire situation to do that.
    If you're using Kornak against a Daofei that's a 45% risk for a 31% chance to kill a more expensive unit.

    Most enemies will be on the level of a Zhanshi and not a Daofei, but maybe consider not using Berserker unless you actually need to absolutely deal damage to the target? 50% chance at 5% risk might be better.

    And possibly don't risk him if he's your LT. Kornak might not be a great example, even melee might not be a great example considering the mechanics.
     
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  7. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    Cause you Whould otherways pay 50 points for a two wound model.
    Really, you are complaining a rule for an error you made.
    I'm sure you forgot that knifes have shock. You where willing to loose this one wound in the fight and get into NWI state.
     
  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    No, I've literally never made this error, as far as I can remember. My play is nowhere near flawless, but this mistake is one I've never made.
     
  9. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    Removed cause I had a brainfart.
     
  10. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    Ok, then it was unlucky and your opponent took the chance he saw.
     
  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    My opponent didn't "take a chance". It was their best option. The issue is they're rolling it reactively to your attack.
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    2 wounds wouldn't be that expensive, from what I can tell. I'd hazard Kornak at 2 wounds would be around 42 to 45 points and he'd no longer get to choose to fail guts. Mostly what NWI does is cheat a unit that normally shouldn't get 2 wounds up to 2 wounds and Morat seems to be "mostly human" when it comes to physiological limitations it seems so Kornak at 2 wounds would also be HI and all the drawbacks that entails.
     
  13. LankyOgreBP

    LankyOgreBP Well-Known Member

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    This is veering off-topic from rules, but shock doesn't come up way more often than it matters in most of the games that I play. It is a resource that I can leverage to prevent healing, but I have very rarely used to to get around NWI or Dogged.
     
  14. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    The you attacked him? Then it was your fault.
     
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  15. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    I’m agreed with folks that shock is ok but SMGs are underpriced. When N3 launched, I viewed the increase in Shock as a stealth nerf to Aleph and other highly NWI-dependent armies. Taking more varied weapons helps make sure you have the right tool for dealing with high levels of Valour.
     
  16. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    I agree is totally a good move. Providing options to soft-counter strengths of certain units is good.

    The only problem is giving this useful ammo type to SMGs. They should just have AP, or normal ammo only. Why are they functionally short range multi rfiles is anyones guess.
     
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  17. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    A cc specialist attacking a dude armed with a knife? What a blunder!
     
  18. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    A CC specialist disregarding his own personal safety and accepting what comes to get the hit in, you mean?
     
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  19. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    I feel like shock is probably a bit too prevalent, adding more of which was CBs fix for NWI/Dogged being a bit too prevalent / well costed, so now in turn Bioimmunity / Shock Immunity is getting made more prevalent to take the edge off. Hakuna Matata like that is kind of CBs way of dynamic balance adjustment.

    Agree SMGs are a bit much (a multi SMG and a normal one that's like a step between pistol and combi are good ideas). It's slightly immersion breaking that a SMG is either a tank busting or an especially powerfully lethal weapon compared to bigger guns really, let alone both.

    One prob with buffing AP is that AP is broadly accepted as a bit weak, but so is ARM at lower values. Something like Cover adding double your ARM with a min of 1 and max of 5-6ish, but AP halving the cover bonus along with the ARM might make them both more interesting. Haven't mathed it out properly though.
     
    #39 Hachiman Taro, Mar 21, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  20. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    What I'm talking about comes up even if you go FtF.
     
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