1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Random thought about AP Ammo

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Stiopa, Jul 23, 2018.

  1. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2017
    Messages:
    3,686
    Likes Received:
    5,510
    Its only a rough guide. Any armour is valuable. Those are just the most notable in game points
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  2. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,002
    Likes Received:
    4,661
    sad_trombone.avi
     
    loricus and inane.imp like this.
  3. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    809
    Likes Received:
    630
    How about ap halves arm, rounding up? So arm 1 becomes 0. Arm 3 becomes 1, arm 5 becomes 2. It hits the odd arm values by 1 extra point, which happen a lot.
     
  4. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,040
    Likes Received:
    7,177
    Half ARM rounding up is literally what we have now. You're describing half ARM and round down.

    A: because it is worse than the current system.
     
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  5. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    4,272
    Likes Received:
    9,657
    Well, the whole idea was to get rid of the rounding and go with something simpler.
     
  6. kinginyellow

    kinginyellow Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    809
    Likes Received:
    630
    Meant they lose half their arm round up(so 5 arm would lose 3, making 2), but your way is easier to understand. So let's go with that.

    I am not sure that the division aspect is really difficult, just there is enough 0/1/2 arm people in the game that the is always the question of "do they have arm 2+" and they are unsure so have to check.

    I thought the conversation was indicating a problem of effectiveness of ap in general in comparison to other options on submachine/multi based weapons over that of shock against even normal mooks.
     
    Ben Kenobi likes this.
  7. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,040
    Likes Received:
    7,177
    The conversation was indicating a 'problem' with 'MOD' that wasn't +/-3 and with the effectiveness of ARM in general.
     
    Dragonstriker likes this.
  8. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,148
    Likes Received:
    9,666
    I think I'd be OK with ARM being in multiples of 3 like BTS (and AP then doing a flat -3 to ARM), but we might have to redo the damage stats of things, particularly the big antiTAG weapons. That's a big consequence.
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    12,033
    Likes Received:
    15,327
    Looking at Hacking and BTS, DAM 16 being a staple for heavy guns is likely in that case.
     
  10. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,407
    Likes Received:
    4,864
    ARM is pretty useful/terrible depending on who has it.

    ARM 3 for Nisse Hacker? Oh noes.
    ARM 3 for Magisters? Hell yes.
    ARM 4 for Orcs? Meh.
    ARM2 for Proxy MK2? Great.

    Overall extra ARM is good for:
    - more Wounds/NWI/Dogged
    - protecting expensive combat troops (a Swiss loves his ARM5)
    - ARM 2 upgrades for midrange troops above cheerleader level (1->2 is only one point, while 2->3 is 2).

    And bad for
    - non combattants (pure Specialists - Hackers, Engineers, Docs)
    - badly optimized troops like Orcs (who'd love a drop to ARM 3)

    Even values are mostly worse that uneven ones, with three exceptions.

    ARM2 is cheap and effective for the price as soon as your troop hits the 20s.

    ARM3 for 1W troops is friggin expensive, you'd always want to stay at ARM2 for what usually is MI in the 20-30s. Grunts amd Nisse pull it off due to very nicely optimized Profiles.

    ARM10 is vastly better than ARM9 against anything without AP/K1/Mono.
     
    Abrilete likes this.
  11. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    970
    Likes Received:
    887
    But that's template weapons for you, the REAL AP ammo in the game.

    How is rounding too complicated?
     
    Abrilete and eciu like this.
  12. Del S

    Del S Tunguskaball

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2017
    Messages:
    1,178
    Likes Received:
    2,585
    I think a weaker form of AP rounds could be introduced, an AP Minus round. Works like current AP except it has a maximum of -2 or -3 ARM removed when halving, meaning it's less effective against heavy armoured units. Assuming -2 it means versus ARM 6 and up it's less effective than the standard AP round.

    Alternatively, some units could gain an AP Resistance skill as a form of immunity, forcing AP to only reduce ARM by 2 or 3 (and rendering AP-, if it came into being, into Normal ammo)

    On the whole I think Immunity could use way more work and rewording to become a more varied and interesting set of traits, but that's another thread, isn't it.
     
  13. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2018
    Messages:
    1,163
    Likes Received:
    1,206
    The real travesty with Armour is how obviously armoured Morats are... and how little Armour their profiles provide #SadReactsOnly
     
  14. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,040
    Likes Received:
    7,177
    I agree. And Moiras are clearly LI: they should absolutely be ARM-1 and 4-4 Move. ;)
     
    Section9 and Stiopa like this.
  15. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6,148
    Likes Received:
    9,666
    It's apparently not taught in schools anymore, since one of the guys in the gaming group sees prices of $25.99 and says "It's only $25!"



    Adds a complication for little benefit. Might have been worth pursuing in N2, though.
     
    eciu and Abrilete like this.
  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    6,040
    Likes Received:
    7,177
    My first response was going to be "American education system." But I decided that was impolitic [emoji14]
     
    loricus and paraelix like this.
  17. RecklessPrudence

    RecklessPrudence Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    178
    Believe it or not, that's (probably) not a failure of that guy's education - it's a common cognitive hack used for prices. When our brains see $25.99, they are much more likely to consider it as either 'basically $25' or 'a little bit more than $25' subconsciously than they are to see it as it is, as essentially $26. Studies have been done on this, and it almost doesn't matter how well educated you are, you can fall prey to this if you're not consciously aware of it and monitoring yourself. It's because our brains are dumb and lazy, and take shortcuts to save thinking time and energy, which was a valid practice back when energy (food) was more scarce and decisions of all sorts had to be made quickly or the protohuman would die, but nowadays when energy is plentiful for many people and a lot of decisions need to be more carefully considered because the consequences are not obvious but are serious, it bites us all in our collective butts.

    I bet posthumans don't have this problem...
     
  18. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    2,469
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    I don't think it's that rounding is difficult, it's that it makes different armor levels worth different amounts.
     
  • About Us

    We are a company founded in 2001 in Cangas (Spain), and devoted to design and manufacture games and figures. Our main product, Infinity the Game, was born with the ambition to satisfy the most demanding audience, offering the best quality.

     

    Why are we here?

     

    Because we are, first and foremost, players.

  • Quick Navigation

    Open the Quick Navigation