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Quality of life changes for MRRF

Discussion in 'Ariadna' started by MATRAKA14, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. MATRAKA14

    MATRAKA14 Well-Known Member

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    Time has passed since the MRRF update and I would like to share some thoughts and needed changes.

    The mix link of metros and moblots could allow to link 2 moblots with 3 metros because with 3 moblots the link ends up a bit too expensive and this makes it harder to fit the other options like bruant or the alguacil.

    Zuaves need some attention the swc costs seem unjustified, MRRF is rarelly seen but this guys seem even more rare, with mechanized deployment and a good mix of specialist options and weapons this troop should be the embodiment of MRRF but as I have said the swc makes them a subpar option to chose.

    The sapper skill could use a rework, a sapper profile should be an anchor for the MRRF player, they should be able to hold the line against the enemy troops in reactive and feel like dangerous ARO pieces.
    Neurocinetics could be a solution if it fits the rest of sappers of the game, but any other idea could help at this point.
    This could help to justify the 2 swc moblot sapper, but also this profile should loose the link team option if needed for balance.

    The loup garoup with light grenade launcher needs a swc drop, at 1,5 the cost is incredible high it feels like a dinosaur from another age.

    The hmg profile of the anaconda was a really good addition but the profile is still underwhelming and could use a rework.

    In my opinion MRRF could be in a far better spot to rest until further redesigns with some of those changes.

    Also for those who still play MRRF, have you been able to find some success after the update?
     
  2. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    The other Sappers don't have Neurocinetics as far as i'm aware of.
    Since i mostly use Loup-Garou Core and Briscard Harris, i don't care about the Moblot-Metro Link that much.
    The Loup Garou LGL should be much cheaper. Never used it due to the SWC cost.
     
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  3. yluvatar

    yluvatar Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'm with you. When I saw the update, I thought "ok this is nice" but now when I see the other factions updates I think "ok... but why?"

    The light granade launcher in the loups it must cost 1 swc and maybe have smoke munition.

    If we have a 112 wildcard trooper, the mix moblot link will be more cheaper and for the loups it's a really good idea (they don't have specialist profile).

    For the zapper skill I dont now how make for made it best, If you can move 5-0 (2-0 inch) when you are in the foxhole...

    Maybe with this little changes we can wait to the rework of the sectorial.

    And I hope to see one day a fireteam of zuavos with mechanized deployment and loups garou in horses...
     
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  4. MATRAKA14

    MATRAKA14 Well-Known Member

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    Of course, giving neurocinetics to Ariadna is a problema, and total reaction or neurocinetics should be tied to the use of fox holes to make sense, so you can avoid the vanilla problem making the profile exclusive to MRRF but if you modifie the fox holes you have to touch all the other sapper troops of the game, specially the linked ones.

    It's a pain to balance. It's the most dificult fix of the list, but that dosn't make the other mentioned problems more dificult to fix. In fact they don't seem to be that dramatic. A couple of small price changes or link revisions should not be a big problem or make mrrf overpowered.

    SWC revisión for the zuaves without special weapons and loup garou lgl.
    Cost revisión of the moblot sapper.
    Option for 2 linked moblots with 3 metros.

    Those 3 changes are reasonable and don't seem to be able to brake infinity apart with MRRF appearing in all the tournaments as top facction.
    Just with the zuave swc revisión the faction could have a couple of new reasonable options to play.
     
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  5. prophet of doom

    prophet of doom Well-Known Member

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    I agree to this partly. Yes, there are issues, but this was a fast-paced rework that made MRRF playable again. It was not month of working on it.
    CB could have just abandoned the MRRF and then we would just be stuck with our models for nothing. Remember, they said they will never ever rework MRRF agaijn. At least we can play them now and they can be good.

    Moblot + Metro can be a very good link. Remember that at the time this rework was done, mixed fireteam were not that common yet. It is cheaper than a full moblot team. Even a full Moblot team would be effective.

    Briscard haris is very good.

    4 Chasseurs is a strong option.

    I think they do need to change the SWC of the non-sapper zuoaves, otherwise I will not use them. Duroc and Bruant could need a bit of a rework, but it is not that serious. I play MRRF now.
     
  6. KanyeWest

    KanyeWest Well-Known Member

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    Where did it say MRRF will never be reworked again? I thought CB said it will come back to them later but for now they shelved the army to make way for new armies?
     
  7. saint

    saint Charming, but irrational

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    As a quick fix this was fine, we got a few haris teams and a mixed link (if not an ideal one), as others have said this is enough to not leave us looking in the window with everyone's shiny new toys though our stuffs still second hand. I still have issues with FRRM, the universal SWC tax on Zouaves, the LGL Loup-Garou, sapper Moblot, the existance of Metro's... But luckly with this update CB did goof, they didn't touch the ridiculously competitive pricing of the Chasseur, 20pts for a FO or Mine-layer is stupid and I love it.

    And yes CB said that they're shelving FRRM for the foreseeable future, not eternity. so one day we might get new rules but don't bank on it for a few years yet.
     
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  8. rac

    rac Active Member

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    Is 112 emergency service (112 bike) available for MRRF?
     
    #8 rac, Dec 18, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  9. Pierzasty

    Pierzasty Null-Space Entity

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    No.

    It's not available for anybody yet.

    But it'd be very shitty on CB's part if they retired the 112 on foot and didn't update the profile.
     
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  10. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    That does not mean that it will never be. Just not at the moment.
     
  11. yluvatar

    yluvatar Well-Known Member

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    I hope that with the new profile, corvus update the old and we will have one 112 wildcard. But maybe is too much for christmas...
     
  12. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

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    See:

    Screenshot_20181220-091201.png

     
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  13. Jandrus

    Jandrus We're naught but humble pirates!

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    Smoke for MRRF. YAY!
     
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  14. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Tbh, out of everything that's out there, I would have been happiest with light shotguns on Metros.

    Knocks their cost down a bit more, gives them a slight chance of fighting something off in the DZ, makes their Inferior Infiltration profiles more useful, fits their background of militia/police, and is a big help on the whole.

    Smoke on the 112 will be a very big help. MRRF wanted smoke badly.
     
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  15. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Thinking a bit more about the 112 biker:

    • Smoke will be great. We know how few smoke-wielders MRRF has.
    • Having a fast, mobile specialist helps take some pressure off of Chasseurs to fill all those critical roles for the Sectorial. Chasseurs can go back to combat and area denial, and won't need to spend as much time pushing buttons.
    • Having a quick attacking light shotgun is a nice new threat vector for Merovingia. Run up, push a button, maybe even try to Doctor something along the way, shotgun the enemy DZ. Very nice.
    • Perfect unit for actually feeling like Merovingia is a rapid reaction force that also helps with crisis response and disaster relief. Very thematic.
     
  16. Ogre_man

    Ogre_man Member

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    I have some thoughts on the current state of the French and I would like to hear your opinions.

    As far as we have seen with the last "modernisation" updates (Acon, MAF, MO) they have something in common.

    1. Modernisation. As in, bringing Sectorials up to corrent design philosophy of mixed linked arms+ add new rules to the older forces.

    2. Versatility. Modernised sectorials did not get "stronger" as in "kllier and shootier" (I could say, that the core link of MO have lost a good chunk of ARO capabilities, as is the loss of Sogarat link for MAF). Yet, those modernised got a lot from mixing and matching models in the links. No more useless link fodder, every one has a role.

    3. Viability. Mostly a case of MAF, yet Acon was somewhat lagging behind. A tertiary target, as far as I can see.

    How does MRRF update fit in all of this?

    MRRF did not get any new rules, only a single two-unit mixlink. No SWC updates either- look at Zouaves. The most modern gun is... Marksman rifle?

    Versatility. How versatile is MRRF? How could it surprise an opponent? What different playstyles does it have? Supporting Shasseurs and dropping Mirage, what else?

    Viability. This is more of a question to community, but I think, that there is a sertain consensus. After all, "french tier" is something like a meme.

    What could be proposed?

    Of course, new MRRF-focused units are out of question until La Revolucion.

    A lot could be done simply as a matter of light tweaking. A wildcard or two (Bruant? Loups?), some specialists (FO, something for Loups), maybe even a Liberto (as a joke on its name and being a frogman). And Zouaves SWC is looking like something from a stone age.
     
    #16 Ogre_man, Jan 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  17. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    @Ogre_man
    Good post. Responding to your thoughts with blue text.

    MRRF did not get any new rules, only a single two-unit mixlink. No SWC updates either- look at Zouaves. The most modern gun is... Marksman rifle?

    Indeed. The only upside is that MRRF was pretty progressive back in the day. The marksman rifle was originally their weapon, and they have some very good platforms for viral, E/M and some other useful and rare ammo types.

    CB could double down on this. Viral pistols? Viral Sniper? Perhaps my favorite inclusion would be SMG-equipped Zouaves, Chasseurs... Hell, just about anything with an SMG is good.


    Versatility. How versatile is MRRF? How could it surprise an opponent? What different playstyles does it have? Supporting Shasseurs and dropping Mirage, what else?

    I think Loup-Garou, Metro mixed link and Briscards are three pretty decent link choices that all behave a bit differently. I think they all show their age... It's very hard in the current game climate to win face-to-face rolls with with flat BS12, no negative modifiers, and that's really been my primary challenge with making MRRF work in hyper-competitive settings. They do adapt pretty well though... There are a few decent gems in there, like Zouaves being decent datatrackers in the era of ITSX, Loup-Garou getting full Stun grenades (this is really nasty if properly leveraged) and BS16 links with Chasseurs isn't bad at all.

    Viability. This is more of a question to community, but I think, that there is a sertain consensus. After all, "french tier" is something like a meme.

    The 112 really helps, of course. The big competitive problem I found with MRRF is that they had the PanO Quandry without PanO Firepower. Namely, they lacked smoke, so every problem had to be solved by shooting down opposition, but they also lack the quality gunfighters to really make this happen. Now, with the 112, at least they can smoke an objective if necessary, and that's a big advantage.

    What could be proposed?

    My own laundry list of proposed changes:
    • Sensor. Almost everyone has it now. MRRF's sister-sectorial, TAK, ties with PanOceania for having the best anti-Camo game in town. MRRF was always themed as the cosmopolitan import-export Sectorial... They wield Haqq Viral Rifles, Nomad ADHLs, they were the first to get MSV1 on a unit, and there's no reason they couldn't have Sensor-equipped infantry similar to Zulu Cobras, Grenzers, etc. This would be very fitting with their search-and-rescue, humanitarian angle as well. Moblots would be a good recipient for this role, or Mirage teams as a brand new unit.
    • Wildcard. Wholely agreed that there was some missed opportunity for Wildcard. I'd love to see both Moblots and Bruant receive this rule. Being able to just toss a Molotok or HMG into any of the current links would be a big fix for their firepower issues.
    • Metros. First, they're bad. We all know that. The big issue isn't their stat line, but rather their equipment. Noone complains about Caledonian Volunteers, because that shotgun + chain rifle is such a winning profile that's cheaper than Metros. I don't advocate that Metros get the same thing, but I do think shotguns are in order. It would drop the price of Metros, and also thematically fit their role as metropolitan police rather than military infantry. It also really helps offset their poor Ballistic Skill. Carry this shotgun profile to their inferior infiltration loadouts, and it helps put them back in the game as a useful choice.
    • Can we get MRRF in on the T2 fun as well?
    • Forward Deployment is now a thing. Seems like a good opportunity, taking a note from the new PanOceania revisions, to have "MRRF Division" units that benefit from it. Pretty much every unit benefits from at least having the option of a bigger deployment zone.
     
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  18. Smiler

    Smiler Well-Known Member

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    I love all this. CB hire this man!

    I agree particularly about smoke. I've found against opponents that have strong ARO presence (TR bots in particular are a nightmare) I have very few reliable options to deal with them. Mixed link Moblots help but it's still risky.

    I'd love to see some SMGs on Zouaves and Chasseurs. Hell they'd be good on Metros too.

    As for new units I'd like another camo unit, something cheap and disruptive like the Inf-Inf Metros but with standard camo. Basic weapons like SMGs, shotguns and things that let them trade up like emaulers, DEPs and ADHLs.
     
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  19. Ogre_man

    Ogre_man Member

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    In current Infinity you do NOT go to a fireright based solely on BS (and it is still 12-13). You stack bonuses, give out maluses and generally actively work to make hitting you more difficult.
    This translates into profound handing-out of Mimetism, Smoke (to Ariadna) and multi-band weapon mixings like templates+shotguns+rifles+heavies in a single link.
    We should not discuss if it is right or not, but should acknowledge that it is definitely in current design philosophy and forms the meta.
    Yet, MRRF is clunky, with range deficiencies and lacks reliable ways of interacting with enemy BS. This is modernity for you, and MRRF was SUPPOSED to be updated.
    Looking at what was done to Acon/MAF/MO we could expect at least near the amount of effort put into correcting MRRF.
    It really could be done wthout changing the models WYSIWYG, just correcting something in AB.
     
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  20. Marduck

    Marduck Well-Known Member

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    I played a lot of MRRF since the update.

    I don't think theyr are bad, even if they have some balance issue, but they pale compared to TAK.

    Barakiel said it better than anyone could. Almost no smoke, so they have to gunfight their way to the objectif (wich doesn't fit their background imo ...) and they don't have enough firepower to threaten TAG in suppressive fire (no AP, EM on non camo troopers) or with TO sniper (best odd are with the moblot HMG or Knauf and its like 50win/30nothing/20dead) or a Kamau sniper ...

    One way around that is to multiplier your HMG holders. Luckily they are not that expensive (Zouave HMG + Moblot HMG + Paracomando HMG is 4 SWC. You can still add an Anaconda or Knauf+Zouave sniper). But then you relly on luck to win you these firefight against decent ARO pieces.

    Right now they are a playable but quiet frustrating army.


    PS : Shotgun on infiltrating metro would be great indead. Tbo they already do good for me. Nobody want to waste too many order chassing a 11pts metro. But if you don't he can destroy your 8 pts bots or shoot you in the back. I had one on top of a building which nearly killed a Hsien shooting him in the back. :D

    I would add smoke, and another camo trooper to the wishlist ... why not 1 or 2 Hunzakut mercenaries ? (Call they foreign legionary). Having some repeater would make MRRF enter the hacking game, wich would be very unique for Ariadna)
     
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