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Praise to the Lord! - The Orders Are Coming

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by AdmiralJCJF, Mar 1, 2021.

  1. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead

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    This is true, and removing unnecessary risk from tactics is a thing. I see him as a high risk - high reward option, and I actually do like to use those.
     
  2. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    At least until you kill something. The Santiago is honestly one of the few troops where Frenzy really really hurts sometimes :/

    Other than that if you fail the roll, you fail the roll. Considering you really want to run an EVO to make him work that's 45 points of raw investment divided by 0.8 for only 80% efficiency + 16 for the EVO (which is useful even if the Santiago wiffs). So 71.25 points of investment value the combo needs to generate to be worth the investment.

    Love the kit. Stealth, CC capability, BSG, KHD, Nanopulser, 360 Visor, DA CCW/D-Charges can certainly hurt things.
    But is it worth the same as a Montesa Tik or heavy midfield presence with Dart and Trinitarians?

    For what reason does MO actually need to gamble a performance impact on an 80% roll?
    Compared to running all those hilariously overtuned choices in between the so so stuff.

    I'd 100% run a Parachutist HI in a PanO Sectorial without much of a forward presence or Vanilla. The Santiago can do half the Classified Deck alone. Parachutist also would make the EVO optional (although that Firewall on a forward Hacker that can bypass Repeaters is golden), but alas it's stuck with Combat Jump in a Sectorial that has no shortage of forward presence or good value assault troops (inlcuding several combat Specialists, one of MO's bigger selling points).
    Another change from N3 is the massive downgrade to forward Shotgun's damage potential. If you went through the trouble to run a Santiago, you were all but guaranteed to get him down just around the corner of a juicy B2 BS20 BSG Teardrop Template. Having a Nanopulser anyway, new BSGs mostly get you +1B +1DAM to the DTW on Active and unfortunately not much of a benefit for ARO.

    Since loadout dictates the price and I like the loadout very much I don't think the Santiago is too expensive.
    It's purely about the baked in unavoidable chance of failure on a combo that costs you 20% of your budget.

    But that's of course me being partially biased by Vanilla PanO.
    A walk in Specialist that can threaten the most dangerous things in the game from 1/3 of the table away without LOF backed by the usual PanO firepower to clear a spot to bring him on. The EB Paramedic is as good as AD troops get these days.
     
    Cadmo likes this.
  3. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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  4. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member

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  5. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    That's what happens when you get too close to Mendoza.
     
    Judge Dredd, Cadmo and Lesh' like this.
  6. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    And here in spain i probably dontt get the box until mid april...
     
    melkiach likes this.
  7. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Clearly the answer is you need to move to the Caribbean!

    Though I tend to recommend that as a solution for most things.
     
  8. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member

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    Looking like mid or late April for me. Very salty lol
     
  9. Snowball

    Snowball Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    So which Mendoza profile is everyone more inclined to take? I like a damage 14 fire multi rifle that should mostly be in good range already, or within an order or two of being so. But heavy shotgun with the template also sounds delicious.
     
  10. Firellon

    Firellon Optimising underdogs

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    Provided that you want to try him out in the first place, I'd always recommend going for the Multirifle version, even if it costs 2 extra points.

    TLDR: On a model as expensive as Mendoza, you want to have as much efficiency as you can get - utilise Mimetism-6 as well as lack of Frenzy he's paying through the nose for. Heavy Shotgun doesn't fit into this idea as nicely as Multirifle does.

    Detailed reasons why not Heavy Shotgun:
    1. Template option goes well for either piece trading (which 55 points guy does not do well, obviously) or link team ambush (which requires you to get close enough to pull it off). Now, there's a wonderful marker-protected HD option of Boarding Shotgun Trinitarian for 27-28 points that can do the latter much better than Mendoza does.
    2. One of the best things to utilise Mimetism-6 models in ARO is to get into Suppressive Fire and lockdown entire sections of the board (Ryuken-9 being an excellent example of how to do this right). Obviously, the Heavy Shotgun version can not do that, while Multirifle can (and you can do that on your first turn with a command token if you have to go second).
    3. Mendoza's so expensive he affects your available supply of heavy hitters, as for about the same points you can get KotHS with AP HMG and NCO, for 10 points more you can get a Tikbalang, not speaking of 2 Trinitarians and/or Dart you could take instead of Mendoza to fill in a similar role. Therefore, you need to enable Mendoza to perform the ARO-removing duty, which is not what Heavy Shotgun can do while being deployed just 20'' in. He'd still need to get there first, and 4-4 Heavy Shotgun won't get far on his own in MO, since there's no smoke to cover his advance. Multirifle version has a much better chance to fight his way through and get where he needs to be. By the way, did I mention Mendoza lacks Stealth and will get hacked on his way forward?

    Here's a list that I managed to build around all the listed thoughts above, supporting Mendoza with both reasonably good ARO and an AP HMG to clear his path whenever needed.

    Tik + Mendoza
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10 [​IMG]1
    TIKBALANG OF MONTESA (Religious Troop) AP Heavy Machine Gun, Heavy Flamethrower / DA CC Weapon. (1.5 | 68)
    [​IMG] CRABBOT Flash Pulse / . (0 | 0)
    ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 15)
    ORDER SERGEANT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 15)
    CROSIER (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    CROSIER Combi Rifle, Blitzen, E/M Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    CROSIER Combi Rifle, Blitzen, E/M Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    TEUTONIC KNIGHT (Lieutenant) Light Shotgun, Panzerfaust / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 19)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    TRINITARIAN (Forward Observer) Submachine Gun, D-Charges, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23)
    MENDOZA (Forward Deployment [+8"]) MULTI Rifle(+1 Dam), Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 57)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    TRINITARIAN MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 28)
    MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 15)
    PALBOT PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)
    MULEBOT (Deactivator, Repeater) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 8)
    WARCOR (360º Visor) Flash Pulse ( ) / Stun Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 3)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
  11. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    I asked today to my FLGS for the arrival of the new MO box and other things... and if i not ordered DIRECTLY to Corvus, i have to wait for the general release date. WTF IS THIS SHIT?? Then, why preorder? It doenst arrive earlier or have more content than the regular one... (only ordered the box, no Mendoza or Montesa)

    I feel scammed and probably cancel my preorder.

    THIS SHIT MUST BE ADVISED. ONLY CB ORDERS WILL BE DELIVERED AFTER PRE PURCHASE PERIOD
     
  12. Ghost87

    Ghost87 Well-Known Member

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    Global pandemic. Everything is either canceled or delayed. You have problems, mate :)
     
  13. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    Canceled or delayed? Corvus started sending the orders TO OTHER COUNTRIES the day after the preorder finished. And I'm in the same country, no international shipping needed. So, again, why preorder? It doesnt bring any benefits...
     
  14. Whyarecarrots

    Whyarecarrots Well-Known Member

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    Pre orders don't normally ship early; they usually ship on the day of release - the process of pre ordering from your store for this is no different to the normal process. CB shipping early from direct sales is the strange piece here, not other pre orders arriving at the release date.
     
    chaos11 and AdmiralJCJF like this.
  15. ThananRollice

    ThananRollice Your Friendly Neighborhood Locust
    Warcor

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    The point of pre-ordering is always to get exclusive deals, minis, or bundles.
     
  16. Skoll

    Skoll Well-Known Member

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    To be fair it is kinda salt inducing that the preorder period is so far from the retail release while you see people get their models right away just because you chose to buy from your lgs
     
  17. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    So far the only people I've seen get the models are WarCors.

    And we often get things early for demoing purposes.

    Now, there might not be many demos happening right now, but it's hardly a new thing.
     
  18. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    In other news, having gotten my own order and getting ready to start building ready to field them in our big events this year in NZ (being blessed with one of the only environments where we have totally unrestricted face to face gaming) I've been thinking about Mendoza and how I might get him onto the field.

    Here's where my thoughts are now:


    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    BLACK FRIAR FTO (Sixth Sense) Heavy Rocket Launcher, Nanopulser / MULTI Pistol, CC Weapon. (1.5 | 25)
    CROSIER (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 22)
    CROSIER (Paramedic) Combi Rifle ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    CROSIER Combi Rifle, Blitzen, E/M Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 13)
    CROSIER Combi Rifle / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 11)
    KNIGHT COMMANDER (Lieutenant) Combi Rifle, Light Shotgun / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 24)
    ORDER SERGEANT (Hacker, Hacking Device) Combi Rifle ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 18)
    MENDOZA (Forward Deployment [+8"]) MULTI Rifle(+1 Dam), Grenades / Pistol, DA CC Weapon. (0 | 57)
    DART Submachine Gun, Viral Tactical Bow, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Shock CC Weapon. (0 | 34)
    TRINITARIAN (Minelayer, Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 28)
    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1
    TRINITARIAN (Minelayer, Forward Observer) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Flash Pulse, Shock Mines / Pistol, CC Weapon. (1 | 28)
    MULEBOT (Hacker, EVO Hacking Device) ( ) / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0.5 | 15)
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse / PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 7)
    TECH-BEE (Specialist Operative, Deactivator) Flash Pulse ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-3). (0 | 5)
    5.5 SWC | 300 Points
    Open in Infinity Army

    This is midfield lighter than some options I'd considered (which picked up Forward Deployment Knights Hospitaller, Konstantinos and another Trinitarian) but they ended up very lacking in support options. I've seen that kind of list work for Ariadna, but I'm not sure that style of play is viable in N4, or for PanOceania due to the significnatly reduced number of potential threats.

    Instead I think I've got a better balance here between what I will fight most of the game with (the midfield units, but especially Mendoza himself) and the support elements necessary for them to be more effective overall.

    The key thing which I think I'll feel the lack of is an HMG, especially an AP HMG. But I can't see how to get that in without cutting the midfield elements, or the support elements, to the bone.
     
    Cadmo and miguelbarbo84 like this.
  19. fari

    fari CRISTASOL, EL LIQUIDO DE LOS DIOSES

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    I saw several post on FB from non warcors sharing their packs. And various friends via telegram...
     
  20. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Yep, posted mine earlier in this thread, very unusual as CB usually hold the international orders until the distributor orders go out so I figure out was probably a mixup somewhere.
     
    Lady Numiria likes this.
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